[yohan420]

I agree, and preluderacer.. im a bit biased since I still have H23 S2A4 tranny.. so I know the blocks power .. once I get a header/test pipe I might like it more, but the torque in the low end is useable .. and ont all of us have a chipped & tuned P28 ..

stock for stock, H23 has more low end tq.

modded... depends ...

 

[4thGenReady2Go]

still, h22 has far more potential.

 

[prelude2sin]

^^^ yeah, NA wise

 

[4thGenReady2Go]

thanks, forgot that part.

 

[Si_g]

looks like i ll be getting those cams at xmas after all. i m 141 even in torque and power, so i m hopin to put down numbers quite like prelude2sin. Great numbers man, how does it feel ?

 

[GaRn]

oh good lord vtec people get off our dicks, let us have our glory holy ****! lol..

 

[4thGenReady2Go]

^^ Lol, I own an H23a1, so I really don't count as a "Vtec person", but I'm not seeing the plateau being very high here, 16x is solid, but without shooting giggle gas, how much higher can the output get, considering the (lack of) available bolt ons etc for the 23?

 

[prelude2sin]

^^^ uhh, you do realize that i still need to get the engine tune and install a full-cat back exhaust? did you even see the a/f graph in the first post? what other bolt-ons does the h23 peeps need, that is not offered now?

also keep in mind this a dyno graph of the stage 1 cams. IMHO, 175whp is very attainable in my case and i would not be surprised that wtq turns out to be 175(or higher) as well. (look at all my dyno graphs and you will see why i think that)

look, i dont know why my thread is starting to turn into a h22 v. h23 argument, that was not the purpose of this thread.

n e ways....
i wonder what a h23a1 w/ crower stage 2 camshafts, cam gears, 11:1 comp, hondata, Bisi design header, CAI, and 88mm cycl. bore would yeild? maybe 200whp

 

[PreludeRacer023]

^^^ uhh, you do realize that i still need to get the engine tune and install a full-cat back exhaust? did you even see the a/f graph in the first post? what other bolt-ons does the h23 peeps need, that is not offered now?

also keep in mind this a dyno graph of the stage 1 cams. IMHO, 175whp is very attainable in my case and i would not be surprised that wtq turns out to be 175(or higher) as well. (look at all my dyno graphs and you will see why i think that)

look, i dont know why my thread is starting to turn into a h22 v. h23 argument, that was not the purpose of this thread.

n e ways....
i wonder what a h23a1 w/ crower stage 2 camshafts, cam gears, 11:1 comp, hondata, Bisi design header, CAI, and 88mm cycl. bore would yeild? maybe 200whp

youd be doing all that work and to achieve what? im making that whp now with a completely stock internal h22 with bolt ons....i owned an h23 for three years, it was a fun motor but it in no way con compare to the h22, even stock in a race you "might" keep up in 1st gear off the line....but that low end tourqe isnt going to help you, the extra umph you think you have isnt there, ..lets put it this way, my best 60ft in my h23 was a 2.24...i consistently ran 2.1s on crappy street tires with my h22, and my 330 marks were 6 tenths faster than my best in my h23, and this was with the exact same mods other than the engine, do you realize how big a diff that is in the first 330.....if you wanna build up your h23 then kudos to you...but for the money youll spend, you can get an h22, and have a much higher cieling to work with...but what would i know

 

[yield]

^ Ya but your motor is an exception and you know it. Just look in the NA forum for not so lucky H22's.

I'm all for engine swaps and agree that an H22 is superior in most ways but I also see a fair amount of problems when people swap. Building up an H23 is just something different to try and especially when you can get that kind of gain with some pretty cheap cams, I think a lot of us would choose that. $400 < $2000+

 

[prelude2sin]

youd be doing all that work and to achieve what? im making that whp now with a completely stock internal h22 with bolt ons....i owned an h23 for three years, it was a fun motor but it in no way con compare to the h22, even stock in a race you "might" keep up in 1st gear off the line....but that low end tourqe isnt going to help you, the extra umph you think you have isnt there, ..lets put it this way, my best 60ft in my h23 was a 2.24...i consistently ran 2.1s on crappy street tires with my h22, and my 330 marks were 6 tenths faster than my best in my h23, and this was with the exact same mods other than the engine, do you realize how big a diff that is in the first 330.....if you wanna build up your h23 then kudos to you...but for the money youll spend, you can get an h22, and have a much higher cieling to work with...but what would i know

^^^ uhhh, dude please stop, im building my engine to complement my NOS setup... it is agreed that the h23 is a poor choice to go NA(but it would be so fun to do something different :bigthumb: ), so w/ who are you arguing w/?

i have probably spent less than halve of what you paid for that swap and i still to get off the floor

BTW, i pulled 2.110 60' w/ street tires, so that analogy means squat to me

 

[GaRn]

haha you h22 guys keep talkin about 60 ft times and 330' times.. your slippin the cluth at 3k+rpms anyways on launch and with the low gearing torque down low would make basically no difference.. when we are talkin about torque we are talkin about DRIVABILITY and daily driving! plus i doubt your h23 was anywhere near the power output of your h22.. get them equal in peak power and the h23 will probably walk it.. I like being at below 3000 rpms and having enough power without downshifting i dont know about you lol..

OBVIOUSLY the h22 is superior, I don't know what you guys have to justify to yourselves! The H23 is just catching up

 

[blk96vtec]

I thought the h23 had 156 tq. and the h22 had 158 tq. am i wrong or what?

 

[yield]

you are correct but the torque curves are different - H22 usually peaks when vtec hits. H23 has more available at a lower rpm, hence why people say it's nicer around town. That's what greater displacement does.

 

[4thGenReady2Go]

...get them equal in peak power and the h23 will probably walk it...

that's just it, as far as attainability goes, it's easier to say "match the h23s peak hp to the h22s and the h23 would win" than to actually do that. Listen, I'm sorry, I went OT and now there's a bloodbath pending here, let's all just stand united and laugh at all the F22a owners. :laugh:

sorry to you S owners, that wasn't cool

 

[prelude2sin]

that's just it, as far as attainability goes, it's easier to say "match the h23s peak hp to the h22s and the h23 would win" than to actually do that. Listen, I'm sorry, I went OT and now there's a bloodbath pending here, let's all just stand united and laugh at all the F22a owners. :laugh:

sorry to you S owners, that wasn't cool

:laugh: :bigthumb:

 

[GaRn]

yea they won't be laughing when they throw together a turbo kit for $750 bucks and kick all of our asses

F22's are stout little *****es when it comes to FI..

I really think 200+ whp is feasable with the H23 with a good setup and I think as we have all seen in the past couple years that a well designed header means everything!

I think I am just gonna stick with the stg1 cams b/c i dont wanna spend the money to replace half of my valvetrain lol.. then tuning becomes even more of an issue as well

 

[4thGenReady2Go]

yeah but who's making this well-designed header?

 

[GaRn]

yeah but who's making this well-designed header?

not sure, i didnt look real hard for a header for my h23 i just bought a cheap one off of ebay, basically a DC copy.. $125 shipped and I would never spend 500+ on a header, I think its ridiculous..

but im sure there are a few companies out there that make a nice header for the h23, if not, fabrication my friend

 

[PreludeRacer023]

^^^ uhhh, dude please stop, im building my engine to complement my NOS setup... it is agreed that the h23 is a poor choice to go NA(but it would be so fun to do something different :bigthumb: ), so w/ who are you arguing w/?

i have probably spent less than halve of what you paid for that swap and i still to get off the floor

BTW, i pulled 2.110 60' w/ street tires, so that analogy means squat to me

half of what i paid....haha maybe you dont know what i paid for my lude....so build it and spray and show me how much you can pass me by..whatever, the h23 isnt a great design, and ive owned both....and wow you ran a 2.1 what was your 1/4 time that run??? good job on the 2.1 though...so your 2.1 means squat to me...everyone wants to justify their h23...some of you guys act like that .1 displacement gives you a big block V8 or something...to each thier own, but the h23 will never compare to the h22...and that includes Turbo applications...the fastest honda motors are turbo H22...but whatever...and im confident that i can outrun a bolt on h23 even with NOS