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Avoiding the 5th Gear Grind

5.3K views 36 replies 18 participants last post by  bonestokelude  
#1 ·
OK, so most of you know how the 5th gen transmission grinds sometimes when going to 5th gear. In my car, I feel a similar resistance/grind when going into first, and occasionally third.

The other day I tried going into 5th, but instead of pressing the clutch all the way to the floor and shifting, I shifted with the pedal about an inch and a half from the bottom. 5th gear went in with no resistance at all.

I tried this several more times, with first gear as well, with the same results. In my mind this is the opposite of what should be happening - I should be grinding more - but that isn't the case.

Can anyone verify this and tell me if shifting like this will damage the car?
 
#2 ·
Are you still under warranty, go get it taken in. My car is in the dealer shop right now getting the 5th gear grind fixed. I never heard about the 1st and 3rd gears grinding before. Try to go ASAP because they might blame the problem on you. They do that sometimes
 
#3 ·
shik0me said:

The other day I tried going into 5th, but instead of pressing the clutch all the way to the floor and shifting, I shifted with the pedal about an inch and a half from the bottom. 5th gear went in with no resistance at all.

U mean to tell me u've been stepping the clutch ALL THE WAY DOWN everytime u shift?:confused: If so I can tell u it's NOT NECESSARY!!!!!:nono:

Learn to find the engagement pt. on ur clutch(put into 1st gear and release clutch slowly until the vehicle starts moving) , that's ur engagment pt. U don't need to press down any deeper on the clutch in order to shift!!!!!:bigthumb:

Damage?? Not really unless ur grinding the hell out of the gears each time u shift. Also don't slam ur stick into each gear, in the long-run u'll probably bend the shift fork!!!:eek: :nono:
 
#4 ·
Hey guys. On the 5th gear grind if you are out of warrantee and you have not changed the Tranny fluid. It would be a good thing to change to the Honda Manual Transmisson fluid. The car comes with 10w-30 in it from the factory. And the MTF from Honda is pretty good stuff. And in extreme cases if that doesn't work, for me that did not. I went to GM syncromesh (yep a General Motors product) and after about 500 miles the grind is GONE!!!!
Now as the old saying goes if it ain't broke then don't fix it.
I have talked to guys that had the 5th gear replaced underwarantee and to have the problem come back!! And after using the GM syncromesh it has gone away and stayed away.
The first gear just slips in with no effort and I can not make 5th gear grind!! But beware that the Gm Syncromesh fluid is expensive to the price of $9 per quart. The car will take about 2 quarts to fill.
Good luck
Ken
97 5spd
 
#5 ·
KENLUDE97 said:

I have talked to guys that had the 5th gear replaced underwarantee and to have the problem come back!! And after using the GM syncromesh it has gone away and stayed away.
The first gear just slips in with no effort and I can not make 5th gear grind!! But beware that the Gm Syncromesh fluid is expensive to the price of $9 per quart. The car will take about 2 quarts to fill.
Good luck
Ken
97 5spd
I hope ur wrong about the 5th gear gremlins coming back!!!:nono: :( I just had mine replaced not long ago!

It's interesting what u said about the GM syncromesh stuff? What is that stuff made of? Synthetic? I hope I don't have to resort to this bottle but I'll definitely keep this in mind!!!:bigthumb:
 
#7 ·
I thought NOT fully depressing the clutch everytime you shift gears would lead to ruined synchros. correct me if i am wrong, but if you don't depress your clutch all the way, your tranny will get busted later on down the road.
 
#9 ·
slickshifter said:
I thought NOT fully depressing the clutch everytime you shift gears would lead to ruined synchros. correct me if i am wrong, but if you don't depress your clutch all the way, your tranny will get busted later on down the road.
when shifting, 99% of the time my clutch is not depressed all the way. it's been 4+ years, 92000 miles, Redline MTL, autox's, track events, and daily beatings from me --- tranny is still strong! *shrugs*
 
#11 ·
Originally posted by slickshifter
I thought NOT fully depressing the clutch everytime you shift gears would lead to ruined synchros. correct me if i am wrong, but if you don't depress your clutch all the way, your tranny will get busted later on down the road.
That's what I thought too.

Now I'm curious as to whether my car grinds more than other 5th gens. So - none of you grind first gear at all, when you put it in gear at a complete stop? It just goes in with no resistance?
Mine crunches a little bit. :confused:

And yes - I know where my clutch engages, and I don't slam the stick into gear. Guess I'll go in for service then :mad:

I'm pretty disappointed that the 5th gen tranny would be anything less than flawless, considering the Prelude was one of Honda's oldest models. If any problems showed up in the 97-98 models, they should have been fixed by 2001 :mad: :mad: :mad:
 
#13 ·
shik0me said:
The other day I tried going into 5th, but instead of pressing the clutch all the way to the floor and shifting, I shifted with the pedal about an inch and a half from the bottom. 5th gear went in with no resistance at all.
Sounds like your clutch needs adjusting. Have that checked first - it may not be a transmission problem (yet).

How many miles on your car?
 
#14 ·
For now you can get away with not depressing the clutch fully, but as time wears on this will shorten the life of the clutch and other things in the tranny. Depressing the clutch petal fully fully releases the clutch and will allow for the least stress on the clutch and tranny parts.;)
 
#15 ·
Darth Luder said:
For now you can get away with not depressing the clutch fully, but as time wears on this will shorten the life of the clutch and other things in the tranny. Depressing the clutch petal fully fully releases the clutch and will allow for the least stress on the clutch and tranny parts.;)
but ... but ... i already HAVE 90,000+ on the stock clutch. ;)
 
#16 ·
Originally posted by Daemione
Sounds like your clutch needs adjusting. Have that checked first - it may not be a transmission problem (yet).
Thanks for the input everyone.

I have less than 9000 miles on my car, but I remember the slight grinding in 1st, 3rd, and 5th ever since I owned it.

Originally posted by KENLUDE97
Hey guys. On the 5th gear grind if you are out of warrantee and you have not changed the Tranny fluid. It would be a good thing to change to the Honda Manual Transmisson fluid. The car comes with 10w-30 in it from the factory.
So you are saying that the fluid in my tranmission right now is 10W-30 oil and not Honda Manual Tranmission fluid?
 
#18 ·
i heard from dealership. dont' go with syn transmission. it's too light.......if it's grind....try to mix the ATF with MTF. it will work(it've little improvement about grinding on my car). i've never try to put syn transmission oil. they said it will even worse then factory oil. anyways, my car is sold. so this problem is away from the head now. also, the weather is big problem for lude tranny as well. if it's cold without warm up. i'm having trouble to shift first three gear......
 
#19 ·
Hrrmmm...

Clutching:
As mentioned, you only need to push the clutch pedal in "so far" to get it to disengage. This will be dependent on clutch wear and the fluid. Once you find that spot, you can safely clutch to that point and need to go no further; the catch is to be sure that you're there. If you have any slight grinding while short-clutching you might not be going far enough. If you clutch properly (to where it disengages all the way), you won't have to worry about excessive wear on the clutch or tranny, though I can't stress how important it is to find this point on your car.

Fluids:
I'd recommend changing the manual box at 100k miles. There's no need to change any more often. ALWAYS use the Honda fluid; I've yet to see any conclusive reason to use anything else. As for regular oil or GM or whatever, be SURE it is the right weight. If you put in the wrong weight fluid, you WILL cook the transmission. I suggest the Honda fluid, it works great. NEVER use motor oil unless you are low and don't have access to the Honda fluid. Something people overlook is clutch fluid. Your clutch fluid should be honey-colored. If it looks like mud, FLUSH IT! This can result in slow, incomplete clutch disengagement and ultimately increased wear. In shik0me's case, this is likely not the issue (with low miles) but for you people with higher miles or that do a lot of racing... flush your clutch when you do your brakes. Keep that fluid as clear as you can.

The problem/recurrance:
The 5th gear problem was technically (if I remember) only applicable to the '97 via TSB. They claim to have fixed it in '98, but I don't think they did. When I looked it up, I found TSBs on many older models (4th gens) on the same thing.I think that the "improperly manufactured shift fork" is a misnomer, I think they are covering up a design defect. The fork would have to be pretty badly manufactured to be so far off as to cause that level of grinding. I've also heard of people having the TSB done and *still* having problems, or having problems later. My 99 had slight grinding in 5th when I didn't shift right...

Shifting right:
I think the issue with the clutching may be rev matching (at least partially). I've noticed in the H22's tranny (every generation) that if you don't match rev's particularly well, you get a little grinding. Case in point, a 1st-2nd HARD shift at high RPMs *always* results in a 2nd gear grind. That's a gross example, but I think the 5th gear issue is similar. Notice that if you clutch all the way and try to shift smoothly (slowly) that your re'vs will drop below where they need to be. If you short-clutch and shift a little faster the rev's are more likely to match and I think the gears less likely to grind.

Miscellaney:
There is no clutch adjustment on a hydraulic clutch system like the 3rd-5th gens. There's a *pedal height* adjustment, but unless you've damaged the pedal assy it should still be set right. Redline MTL made my tranny grind worse than before after a few thousand miles. Honda fluid made it better. :)
 
#20 · (Edited)
ImagePree said:


but ... but ... i already HAVE 90,000+ on the stock clutch. ;)
but ... but ... thats just breaking it in...;)

Two buddies, have two Porsches, both autoxers. One beleived in clutching all the way down and being off of it at stop lights etc. The other just did the engage until it was able to shift. The one that engages it fully is on his stock clutch, it is 12 years old and approaching 140k at least. The other guy, well, poor guy, is replacing it, an 8 year clutch with 100K... These are Porsche clutches, but yet they are old ones and Porsche isnt the most reliable company...but it just shows what you can get if you clutch right...;)
 
#22 ·
ImagePree said:
we'll just have to see how long mine lasts.
already have the new clutch sitting here for over a year!!! :mad:
Ahh, so you are prepared huh, thats good then. :bigthumb: It will probably last ya another good 20k or so...depends on what ya put on that bad Lude and how ya drive.
 
#23 ·
My 97 Lude is in the shop right now for the 5th gear grinding... they also found that the springs are loose on the clutch as well so while they are there, I'm going to put in a ACT Clutch. All I have to pay for is the parts plus .5 hours of labour to turn the flywheel...
 
#24 ·
Darth Luder said:
but ... but ... thats just breaking it in...;)

Two buddies, have two Porsches, both autoxers...
Here's my example, about as valid as this one:

1989 Prelude Si, one nice driver for 50k, one horrible driver (lots of slipping) for 50k, and one punk teenager for another 50k. Sold with over 150k miles on the clock, STOCK clutch, would still chirp second gear. For that last 50k I'm pretty sure the pedal never went all the way to the floor.

If the clutch is disengaged all the way (which happens well before it hits the floor on most Hondas, maybe halfway) there is no more wear on the clutch than if you go to the floor and move the disc another 1/2" or however much further. The trick is to find that distance and hit it repeatably. You'll usually grind if you're not all the way there, so it's (in my experience) not terribly hard to find.