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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm thinking the bottleneck that hinders performance. What do you guys think is the weakest link?

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97 Honda Prelude
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Well... if you ask a lot of people here, they say it's the ECU - that OBD2 sucks. They may be right, but I haven't seen a 4g VTEC stock dyno against a 5g VTEC stock dyno run under the same conditions yet...

Personally, I think the H22 is quite tuned, and you only get bits and pieces out of every job - 5hp here, 3 there, 10 there... To get real power you probably need to dig into the engine, or run some boost.

But if you mean performance in a fashion other than straight line - it's all about the suck-arse shocks and springs.

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by atlxchink:
When I try to picture o0OO0o as a moderator, the image of Beavis hacking away at the keyboard comes to mind </font>
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
spite, thanks for the input.

Yeah, I think the suspension should be everyone's first mod, cause the H22 is good enough in my opinion. But for example, what would be a certain component in a 4th or 5th gen that would be especially restrictive? The intake manifold? The throttle body? Hmm....
 

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What makes it restrictive? Nothing specific, really - which is what makes power hard to get out of the H22. If you replace the intake with a cold-air intake, you MIGHT see 10hp PEAK... probably only 5, and maybe 2-3 across the powerband. Headers? Mugen ones might gain you another 10, but most likely 5 again. Exhaust? Again, it's pretty damn good from the factory.

Cams, intake manifold, head - they're all really good from the factory. That's why you need to upgrade basically everything to start seeing restrictions.

Say I get intake/header/exhaust/pulleys/cam gears/cams/throttlebody. Only then would my intake manifold and airflow in the head become a serious limitation, worth another 10-15hp.

This isn't like a '98 Mustang GT where you replace headers and get 20hp across the powerband, 30 peak.


OBD2 is (supposedly) bad because it doesn't seem to work too well with the H22 engine. For cars that are rated at 200hp from the factory, Preludes are lucky to put down 165hp at the wheels - which is more than the 15% loss usually associated with front-wheel drive. In fact, 160 seems to be a more common number, making it a 20% loss!

Also, OBD2 is a self-corrective ECU, meaning that it tries to keep the car at a certain performance ranges. If there is a lot of oxygen going in, the car automatically gets more fuel. If there are emissions problems (say the burn is too clean) - again, more fuel. OBD2 also cannot be re-programmed to your specifications, and you cannot advance your timing.

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by atlxchink:
When I try to picture o0OO0o as a moderator, the image of Beavis hacking away at the keyboard comes to mind </font>
 

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I think the weakest link on a 5gen is the driver....after all...doesn't oO00Oo drive one?


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2000 Ficus Green Prelude - Powered by WAAAAAAAAH PPPSSSHSHHH



What stands between a Prelude Driver and an ear to ear grin? About 5500 RPMs!

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My vote would be engine geometry, more specifically, the rod ratio.

The intake manifold is the restrictive part according to Larry. Porting the head won't do much unless you port the intake manifold as well since that's where most of the restriction lies.

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Billy
North Texas Prelude Owners Group
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What's the length of our rods anyway? I just checked the engine section of the Helm's... nada.

Nevermind, found it... old post of your's, Billy:

"bore: 87mm
stroke: 95mm
rod length: 143mm
rod ratio: 1.58
displacement: 2156.73cc
intake valve diameter: 35mm
exhaust valve diameter: 30mm
head cc's: 53.8cc
CR: 10:1"

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by atlxchink:
When I try to picture o0OO0o as a moderator, the image of Beavis hacking away at the keyboard comes to mind </font>


[This message has been edited by spite (edited April 30, 2001).]
 
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rod length: 143mm
stroke: 90.7mm
bore: 87mm
rod ratio: 1.58


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Billy
North Texas Prelude Owners Group
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d'oh, half a minute too late.

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by atlxchink:
When I try to picture o0OO0o as a moderator, the image of Beavis hacking away at the keyboard comes to mind </font>
 
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95mm stroke is on the H23, the H22 is 90.7mm!


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Billy
North Texas Prelude Owners Group
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1.58 isn't THAT bad though... it could be worse. Then again, it could be better too...

Let me guess, you're raising the pin on your engine for some extra ratio? Or are you going to lengthen the rods even? (ouch, displacement!


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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by atlxchink:
When I try to picture o0OO0o as a moderator, the image of Beavis hacking away at the keyboard comes to mind </font>
 

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I wouldnt mind it being RWD.
 
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by spite:
1.58 isn't THAT bad though... it could be worse. Then again, it could be better too...

Let me guess, you're raising the pin on your engine for some extra ratio? Or are you going to lengthen the rods even? (ouch, displacement!


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You really can't lengthen the rod any without moving the pin, there just isn't room. Larry is looking into moving the pin, but then custom pistons and rods have to be made. It will end up with about a rod ratio of 1.65, which is a huge difference from 1.58. Also, it greatly affects the head porting, so thank goodness Larry hadn't ported the head yet.

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Billy
North Texas Prelude Owners Group
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I think he just wanted to say "the weakest link"
. Anyway the weakest link on a 4th gen is definately it's taillights
Looks like Honda engineers forgot something and at the last second carved something out.

Daniel

grnlude97
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by SilverLude:
Drivetrain efficiency. 20% loss is way too much.

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I’ll 2nd that.

Other than that, I love preludes..i’m on my third one.

Oh, and to add to the "rod ratio" thingy, I've heard that the b16's found in the coupe civic si's(del sol vtecs also) supposedly have the best rod ratio, which makes it one of the best engines to rev high.

I guess not having a favorable rod ratio is one of the reasons why H22A's dont' like being revved too high. Correct?

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[This message has been edited by johnsoncranium (edited April 30, 2001).]
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by floundericiousFL:
I think the weakest link on a 5gen is the driver....after all...doesn't oO00Oo drive one?
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hmmmmm true.


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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by hopefor13:
i wanna give malken head just for the hell of it.......</font>
 

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you know what? I always wished my prelude was 2.4 liter...with that, it might have about 15 extra hp with 15 extra lb of torque, YES TORQUE!!! HOW I MISS IT!

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by johnsoncranium:
I guess not having a favorable rod ratio is one of the reasons why H22A's dont' like being revved too high. Correct?

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Since when is 8k rpm not too high. Its pretty high to me. Remember rpm is also the enemy of reliability
 
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