Honda Prelude Online banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
603 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
ok i've decided to go with turbo... I'm going to prepare and buy everything i need and do the whole project at a friends shop with his help this upcoming winter. i have 5 months to buy everything and bring him the stuff with my car so he can help me do the work. I only have a few questions for you guys that have experience with turbos. What kit do you guys think is the best kit? Randy, (my mechanic) has done 2 turbo preludes (5th gens like mine) already. I know the one kid put an f-max kit on a basically stock motor and it's been running very well for about 9 months now with no problems at 7 lbs. I on the other hand am going to put pistons, rods, and block gaurd in my motor so that it can handle more boost along with my 75 shot nx direct port set up. Randy told me the f-max was nice cuz it's a smaller turbo that spools very fast... although my motor will be able to handle more boost than the f-max puts out, the 75 shot will make up for the difference of what a big turbo would do for me. I know you guys will say screw nitrous, get a big ass turbo like drag 3. I don't wanna deal with a race car all day long that takes a long time to spool... with the f-max i can have an easy to drive car with a lot more power at the touch of a button (NX). Does anyone think i should do this differently? any suggestions before i make a mistake? Also what pistons and rods do you guys suggest? randy told me that 8.5 compression pistons would probably be the best bet, but he told me that crower isn't bad, and he's never heard bad about them. What do you guys think? Also, i plan to use a S-afc in place of my v-afc, and i can get one of those vtec control switches that changes vtec at the turn of a dial. I figure i can use the s-afc for all nessesary tuning. ok guys feed me ideas... what's up? sorry for the long post by the way...
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,134 Posts
Why lower your compression? You should get the block sleeved for forged pistons. Why replace your vafc with an safc and a ghetto vtec switch, when you already have a perfectly fine vafc? What are your plans with the afc? Large injectors and afc hack? Stock injectors, afc wired and used as intructed, and a boost dependent FMU? How much boost are you planning on running? Have you considered hondata? What series engine are we talking about?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
603 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
i'm using an H22 motor in my 5th gen prelude. So ur saying by sleeving the block you don't have to lower the compression at all??? Also don't forget i'm spraying a 75 shot direct port on top of the turbo. I'm not sure why i'm getting an S-afc in place of my v-afc. I figured it has something to do with controlling the turbo. So does the v-afc do everything that the s-afc does and more? i was unawhare if that's the case.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
956 Posts
uhm... a vafc is just a safc w/ the ability to adjust your vtec - in/out settings. and its basically "at the switch of a dial" its 3 little clicks of the arrows.

and i'd do a bit of reasearch on boosted h22s... from what ive read the ring lands are the weak spots, and the rods. forged pistons/rods/sleeved and you should be capable or running 8-10psi no problems... i personally will be going custom equal length manifold over a kit. and a 60-1. (good lord thats a long ways from now, finish school next may) but ya...

i was reading that Wiseco has new pistons that dont require sleeving the blocks, the ring land design did not scarr or cause any damage to a guinney pig on honda-tech... from what i read he ran it for over 1k miles w/ absolutly no problems. something to think about too.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,134 Posts
cuseC08 said:
i'm using an H22 motor in my 5th gen prelude. So ur saying by sleeving the block you don't have to lower the compression at all??? Also don't forget i'm spraying a 75 shot direct port on top of the turbo. I'm not sure why i'm getting an S-afc in place of my v-afc. I figured it has something to do with controlling the turbo. So does the v-afc do everything that the s-afc does and more? i was unawhare if that's the case.
I hadn't taken the 75 shot into consideration, so you might want to drop the compression for that. I thought you didn't want to deal with a racecar all day, but it sounds to me like you are building a racecar :laugh: I've heard it said that 8.5:1 on an H22 will run very weak for part throttle off boost (achemze can confirm/deny this). The real question is, what is your power goal? Lower compression, 75 shot, it's really sounding to me like you should be considering a standalone.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
603 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
standalone? Am i gonna run into trouble with the obd1 ecu and v-afc for tuning? what else will i need? what exactily is a standalone? Like a hondata or something? anyway, i figure with the f-max turbo it's a small turbo, it will spool up very quickly prolly by 3 grand, so i mean if it's not very fast and powerful at 2 grand it's not that big a deal, i mean by the time i get off the clutch totally from a dead stop i'm at 2500 rpms anyway, so who cares. anyway do you guys think i'm stupid for keeping the 75 shot? i mean it's already in there runing perfect and it was kinda alot of money to install it. 580 for the kit, 400 installation. also if i lose the nitrous then that means, i gotta get a new Intake manifold. so is it worth it?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
928 Posts
dont even bother counting money just empty your wallet NOW if you are going FI :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
603 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
by the way, i do plan on driving this as a daily driver in the summer, but i figure with a small turbo it will be easy. I've already got a friend witha 5th gen and the f-max driving around on 7lbs for a year now and now problems. plus he beats the **** outta it, and i won't do that to mine. the nitrous is for the track, that's when it's a complete race car.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,134 Posts
You still haven't answered the question: what is your planned fuel setup with the vafc? FMU + vafc + stock injectors + high flow fuel pump? Large injectors + afc hack? Also, I'm saying you should consider a standalone because with large injectors and a vafc running the afc hack you will be fine with the small turbo and 7 psi of boost, but I do not think that that is a good setup at all if you plan on throwing a 75 shot of N2O into the mix. You REALLY need to start thinking standalone.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
603 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
well right now, i've got 310 cc injectors, with the v-afc. I also have fuel rail, fpr, and fuel filter all aem... i will be getting a bigger fuel pump ofcourse. I'm still trying to figure out if i should keep the nitrous or not. I mean it's already in there so it's kinda cheaper if i just leave it there, but i don't wanna leave it there if i can't use it safely. I really don't know of any other way to have my fuel set up without spending 2 grand on the aem ems system. and i really don't wanna do that... my mechanic seems to think that what i have will be good enough. I'll be talking to another kid who has a soon to be 700 whp civic with a crazy turbo setup, and he'll probably put me on track. also, what do you mean by stock injectors with afc or big injectors with afc hack. does hack stand for something? or are you implying that my v-afc is hacked into my car like crap or something.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
603 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
and also one more confusion. what's the difference between blockgaurd and getting the block sleeved? i assumed blockgaurding it would be good enough.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,134 Posts
You have much to learn in the ways of the Dark Side, young one.
i've got 310 cc injectors, with the v-afc. I also have fuel rail, fpr, and fuel filter all aem... i will be getting a bigger fuel pump ofcourse....my mechanic seems to think that what i have will be good enough
Going along that route, you will need a boost dependent FMU (fuel management unit) to increase your fuel pressure as boost pressure increases. The increase in fuel pressure will be your fuel delivery for boost. You would not want to run more than the 310 cc injectors that you have for this sort of setup. This sort of setup is no good for boost above around 7 psi because the fuel pressures get WAY too high after that. Such a setup would not support an additional 75 shot of N2O. Your mechanic should know that this sort of setup demands an FMU and a fuel pressure gauge. If he does not, it is time to find a new mechanic (not kidding about this).
also, what do you mean by stock injectors with afc or big injectors with afc hack. does hack stand for something? or are you implying that my v-afc is hacked into my car like crap or something.
I highly suggest you not purchase a single component until you do some serious searches on this board and do some major research. All the answers you need are available within the history of this forum. I'm going to point you in some directions here to help you out. The afc "hack" is a clever way of rewiring an afc so that it can control large injectors during boost. You can learn about the afc hack here: http://www.thedropshop.tv/vafc.htm Also, you should do some searches for "vafc hack", there are dozens of threads regarding it.

Keep in mind, an FMU setup and the afc hack are two completely different routes for fuel management. When using an FMU, you want to use stock sized injectors (or relatively close, like your 310s) and a high flow pump. This setup utilizes fuel pressure to deliver the fuel, so getting injectors that are significantly larger than stock will just cause you problems with running way too rich under boost (wouldn't idle too well, either, since the stock ecu will not support large injectors).

With the afc hack, you use large injectors (up to 440 cc), and with the vafc wired for the hack you control the duty cycle of the injectors to deliver the fuel you need. No FMU. No high flow pump (STOCK fuel pressure). Higher fuel pressures only come into play in this sort of setup when the fuel needs outreach what the injectors can provide (i.e. high boost). But in a situation like that, a standalone is a much better option.

I don't see how even the afc hack could support a 75 shot of N2O. Running boost and N2O really does mandate standalone engine management.
what's the difference between blockgaurd and getting the block sleeved? i assumed blockgaurding it would be good enough.
The H series engines have fiber reinforced sleeves (FRM) that are not compatible with forged pistons. A block guard will do nothing to protect the FRM sleeves from forged pistons. Traditionally, the block needs to be resleeved with iron liners for forged pistons. Wisecoe makes a forged piston that they claim is compatible with FRM sleeves, but they are new, relatively untried, and Wisecoe does not warranty that the FRM sleeves will not be damaged (which I find disturbing).
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
896 Posts
Hey SHARKCOHEN....YOUR THE MAN DUDE!! hahaha...you just answered a lot of FI questions i had for myself on your last post...haha...thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
603 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
ok well, i talked to this guy i know with a turbo'ed b18 civic that put 441 to the wheels with 10 lbs of boost on 91 octane. this civic will be in import tuner soon, they supposedly already made the article. he'll be putting up to 30 maybe 35 lbs of boost into that motor. I had a long talk with him lastnight and he explained a lot to me. Told me that a v-afc would most likely be good enough for tuning with a smaller turbo like f-max, and he explained sleeving, and I've decided i'll sleeve it and use forged pistons. i'm not sure what compression i'll go with though... probably either 8.5 or 9. the f-max will spool fast enough where i don't care about having no power before boost. He mentioned something about fuel but told me that i wouldn't have any problems as long as it's tuned right, and he's gonna make some phone calls today for me to see what the best set up would be. The thing i'm afraid of is spending more than i expect. I expect to spend about 8 or 9 grand over the next 10 months doing this project. If i have to go with a standalone which i was told it'd be good but not completely necesary, then i'd prolly be spending a lot more money than i plan to. i'm thinking i'd prolly run 10 lbs of boost, the turbo probably isn't sufficient any higher than that. and if my block is so strong that even the turbo is incapable of hurting anything down there, then i figure a 75 shot direct port would be the icing on the cake. plus it's already in my car so i kinda don't wanna get rid of it. I figure i'll get the turbo running properly, and break it in correctly. Then go back to the dyno a 2nd time to get the nitrous tuned.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
603 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
check out what this kid uses for fuel managment... i've never heard of this but it looks like a good idea... a rising rate fuel pressure regulator. I think that'll make it so you don't have to spend 2 g's on a stand alone right?
http://www.gotrice.com/prelude/turbo.html
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
603 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
ok so guys, what do you suggest for a turbo kit? i only know of greddy, f-max, and drag. i think i'm not gonna go with drag cuz from what i hear the turbo is too big and spools late, but i'm not sure... can you guys tell me the different possiblity's with each turbo?
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top