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Anyone know if NA's (street spec) are good for a daily driver? I want a coilover for the height adjustability factor, not for auto-x. I'd like to be able to raise it up in the winter.
 

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Tiens

NA's aren't coilovers from what I remember. The NA set is Tein shocks with S-Tech springs. The shocks are like Koni's and have a few slots for the spring perch to go on. Thats how the height is adjusted.

As for daily street use, from what I hear you can adjust the softness of the shocks to be softer than stock so I don't see that being a problem.

IMO if you're not gunna use it for racing I'd go for a GC/Koni setup or GC/KYB AGX or something like that.
 

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Re: Tiens

SlntSam said:
NA's aren't coilovers from what I remember. The NA set is Tein shocks with S-Tech springs. The shocks are like Koni's and have a few slots for the spring perch to go on. Thats how the height is adjusted.

As for daily street use, from what I hear you can adjust the softness of the shocks to be softer than stock so I don't see that being a problem.

IMO if you're not gunna use it for racing I'd go for a GC/Koni setup or GC/KYB AGX or something like that.
If that's what the NAs are, just a strut/spring combo, then I'd suggest something cheaper (in the US) like a Tokico "blue" and Tanabe Super H (1" drop) or Neuspeed Race (2" drop). Both are stiff springs and should lower and improve handling.

After seing the Tein HA's I wouldn't buy them. Anyone that uses cheap, thin paint on steel like that (and not thicker or powder coating, or Al) that rusts so fast (within a year) can't make much worthwhile. The higher end stuff might be good, but Konis and GC's beat the pants anyday off the Teins when it comes to build quality and longetivity. And after 100k miles when they need to be rebuilt, it can be done here in the states (you might as well toss the Teins.

The Teins are cheap crap in my opinion. I'm not sure where anyone got the idea they were great, maybe from the fact that they're Japanese. Sorry people, the HAs are a poor substitute for Konis and GC's.
 

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Re: Re: Tiens

marcucci said:

The Teins are cheap crap in my opinion. I'm not sure where anyone got the idea they were great, maybe from the fact that they're Japanese. Sorry people, the HAs are a poor substitute for Konis and GC's.
:confused:

I disagree.

I find the Teins to be an excellent system and very well made. Also adjusting the stifness is simple. Although there is a tool included I find that my thumb and index finger work just as well wit no need to pull out the "knob" The other thing is that 6 clicks from hard will always be 6 clicks from hard, not like the Konis where you turn it 'x.5' turns one way or the other.

The ride at the soft setting is comfortable and at the hard setting it is ... well, hard... but my car handles beautifully, so I'm happy.

One thing you have to remember about using a shock spring combo with "seperates" is the rebound valveing. If you buy the Tein NA/HA the Dampers have the rebound optimized for the combined spring. Konis do not, although, you can buy the Neuspeed Edition Konis and "regular" Konis..

Now I'm not saying that Konis are crap, in fact I think they are fantastic too. But the systems are different with different features. I did a lot of research and my opinion was, that dollar for dollar, I would go Tein..

I would say the only comparible system to the Teins are the Stage 4 Truechoice System (using custom valved Konis) and that ran about $2500.00 US..

BTW the NA are about $300.00 CAD less than the HA. and the Tein HA's were only about $300.00 more than a Koni/GC setup (at the time I bought them). But with the Teins you get a true coilover with Tender springs...

Ohya, after 100,000 miles I would expect most performance dampers would require a rebuild...
 

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Re: Re: Re: Tiens

Grant from Toronto said:


I find the Teins to be an excellent system and very well made.
Any product that rusts within a year without being in a salty environment (ocean, snow) doesn't fit that description in my eyes. For anyone who hasn't seen, search the archives- there are pics of what these things look like in a salty environment. I've seen an inordinate amount of surface rust on units here in Texas, which in my opinion is unacceptable.


Also adjusting the stifness is simple. Although there is a tool included I find that my thumb and index finger work just as well wit no need to pull out the "knob" The other thing is that 6 clicks from hard will always be 6 clicks from hard, not like the Konis where you turn it 'x.5' turns one way or the other.
True, but I don't think Koni's adjuster is difficult to use at all. You might not feel clicks but you also get more resolution. Clicks are nice but it's not difficult to set the Konis by any means.


One thing you have to remember about using a shock spring combo with "seperates" is the rebound valveing. If you buy the Tein NA/HA the Dampers have the rebound optimized for the combined spring. Konis do not, although, you can buy the Neuspeed Edition Konis and "regular" Konis..
Agreed. But I've run the regular Konis with 450/375 rates and no problem... excellent handling and no bounciness (dialed in full firm).


I did a lot of research and my opinion was, that dollar for dollar, I would go Tein..

I would say the only comparible system to the Teins are the Stage 4 Truechoice System (using custom valved Konis) and that ran about $2500.00 US..
I don't see how you can say this. What do the Teins do that the GC's with Konis don't? A little stiffer? Pillowballs that don't do anything on our cars? Considering the hefty price of the Teins, the poor finish (rusting), and the cost of Konis and GC's, the ability of the Konis to be rebuilt in the US, and to YOUR spec, I think the Konis/GC combo is MUCH better than the Teins "dollar for dollar."


But with the Teins you get a true coilover with Tender springs...
What's a "true coilover?" Tender springs? Who cares? What good do they really do?

Not slamming, just genuinely perplexed.
 

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Are the Teins good or no? I thought they (HA) were the best for the 5th gen.
 

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coil222 said:
Are the Teins good or no? I thought they (HA) were the best for the 5th gen.
Did you read this page at all?! There are known problems with the Teins rusting. This is in my opinion inexcusable. They are also unnecessarily expensive. The pillowball upper mounts have debatable usefulness in our cars. The Teins are valved stiffer and come with stiffer spring rates, but on the GC's you specify your own rates and the Konis are good to probably 500 #/in.

There are pros and cons to everything. I think the Teins have an artificially high "repuation" like most Japanese items- people think if it's not available here, or made in Japan, it MUST be good. After seeing them in person, I wouldn't use a set if given to me for free.
 

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well for what it's worth, chris at hp.com has said that no true racers or auto-x'ers ever really use teins for their suspension setup. He claims the same thing as marcucci. Teins are for show. You can get a set of custom konis and GC with custom spring rates and put those japanese "true coilovers" tein to shame.
 

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Wow marcucci, I didn't know that shock/strut performance was so affected by the quality of paint!

I'd better go get a high-quality clear coat and tear out my Tein NRs to protect them from that performance-reducing rust! :rolleyes:

Anything that is steel will rust. Anything that is painted, will chip and THEN rust.

I, for one, am totally happy with my NRs and the ride they give me. After having ridden in countless variations of X spring and Y shock combos, I think the NRs are perfect for me - they tuned out a lot of understeer, they're comfy on all but the worst roads, the drop is very respectable on the highest setting (the gap is now one finger width all around), and the body roll is WAY less than what it used to be.

The Tein shocks seems to have about twice the diameter of Koni or stock shocks. While not everything from Japan is better, I do believe the Teins gave me exactly what I was looking for - a quality stiff street suspension. And my combo doesn't even have adjustable shocks.

I'm also not defending Teins just b/c I own them. But that you'll have to take my word for.
 

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So what's the BEST setup then for 5th gen suspension.
I'm getting into Auto x now, and Im still on factory shocks.
I'd like coilovers for the adjustability factor.
I'm straight ballin'
 

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marcucci,

Have you ever been in or driven a car equipped with Teins ?

I've seen 4 sets of used Teins in person (over a year old) and 4 sets of new Teins. The used Teins didn't look any worse for wear than would be expected. No significant rust and after a decent cleaning no major paint chips (except around the bolt locations which is espected. I can show you photos of Konis that after one Canadian Winter look like somebody has taken a shotgun to them and then left them in sea water for a year..

The photo of the "rusted/corroded" Teins floating around the internet were actually from a guy here in Toronto. He didn't take care of the car... They came off an Integra. This car was used through the winter. The coilover threads were never rust protected.. My guess is the car was rarely washed either... But if you look closely at the photos again the part that was corroded badly were the threads... unprotected metal tends to corrode... the shock body looked pretty good (dirty but not rusted out). The perch ring was broken but what would you expect if somebody takes a chisel and a sledge hammer to them.

Think what you will, I like Teins the $1700.00 CAD or so (about $1100.00 US) I paid for them, I felt was a good deal..

BTW Tein has several vehicles in all sorts of Professional Japanese Racing series... In Japan they are one of the most respected Performace Suspension manufacturers, very much like Koni's are here... Real racers do use them...
 

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Todd: I agree with you about the rusting part, it shouldn't be a problem. They should of surface prepped the entire system better. I mean... I think every single one of the other "coilover" systems are prepped better from GC or Progress to even Weapon R. Though I don't see why race teams would drop this as a product from rust, they're revalving the shock/strut after every race anyway.
Though some of the pluses of the Tien system are that their strut is shorter and has the same amount of displacement as stock while Koni makes a shorter shock, the tender spring (only for slight comfort value) along with the 16 point (that i'll probally never completely utilize) adjustable... I don't think it's the crap that you call it. Yes, it's more money than a GC/Koni setup but has some perks too. Though I will admit GC/Koni setup is a better value and rebuilds will not cost anywhere near the amount of the Tien's. When my Tien shocks die out I will most likely go with the GC/Koni setup depending on the rebuild cost. I have yet to see someone post the pricing nor have I been able to get a dealer to quote me on it as of yet.

Cruxader: Tien's DO rust. I live in California and I'm getting some surface rust on mine. It's not a problem however, it's surface rust and it's not getting any deeper. I've just lost the silverish look.

Coil22: Search the archives for 71DSP's post about the best suspension setup. But it will cost you over $10k.

~Doug
 

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well, maybe im not ballin' so straight anymore if we're talking 10K for shocks/struts.
I'm not phased by 1100-1500 for Teins, I'm having a hard time finding them IN STOCK anywhere. I can get them for 1100 NEW, but the waiting list is Mid June for the next shipment :(.
Any other options besides Koni/GC's?
 

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I've had my Tein HR's (basically HA's without damping adjustability) for close to 2 years now and the threads look fine. (I had a really close look at them recently when getting my new tires on) I'm from Vancouver, so it's seen its share of rain. However, I haven't driven them in snow so no salt exposure.
 

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Coil222: I believe Cusco has an application for our cars that you might be willing to explore. From what I've heard of their pieces they're better than the Tien units at the same price. Thoguh I don't see your problem with the GC/Koni idea for it's great for the money. Progress has come out with their coilover suspension but their list is about $1400, though I'm sure that you can get it for cheaper than that. But essentially do your reasearch, and choose what you like best. Remember, coming out of Japan doesn't always mean better, it just means that they had a higher standard to start with (usually).

But overall, if you're going to go with Tien's in a daily driver DO NOT live by the sea shore and DO NOT drive them where road salt could be a problem.

~Doug
 

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Spite:
Your self-appointed name describes you well. I'm surpised you drive a Prelude. If you're not worried about things rusting, or not worried about finish or build quality, you should be driving a Camaro. No, anything that's steel does NOT need to rust- paint it properly or powder coat it and it won't. It doesn't need to chip, either, at least as long as you're not banging on it with a wrench like a monkey. I never argued they didn't *perform*, I was arguing that anything built or designed so poorly as to rust that quickly probably has flaws somewhere else, too. Like the price, for one.

Grant (from The Great White North):
Yes, I've ridden in a car with Teins (HAs). I've also ridden in a car with GC's and Konis with the same spring rate as Teins. Granted, the Konis were revalved to match, but my 450/375 springs on stock Konis rode just fine- no bounciness, nice and firm. Like you'd expect or better yet, like the Teins. I never argued they didn't feel good. My concern is with the build quality. I'm down in Texas- we see snow maybe one or two weeks a year. We also don't salt roads down here, we sand. Maybe my friend whose Teins rusted in one year should have cleaned them every time he washed his car. Guess what? After putting on my GC/Konis I never touched them, except to adjust them or when I took them off this week. Dirty as hell (never cleaned), the GCs looked new when I cleaned them up.

Again, I've never argued they don't perform. They do. Know what? revalved Konis would work just as well with GCs as would the Teins, without the reliability issue the Teins have. My argument is that any product designed with so little regard to finish probably has or will develop other problems. Forget that, though, I don't want a product on my car, *especially* the suspension, that will rust like that. Certainly not one that's supposed to be adjustable, and who's failure would result in me totalling the car.

TimeRacer:
I agree with you. Thanks for not being Spite-ful :)

coil222:
I suggest the GC/Koni setup. Honestly, the high spring rate of the Teins is a little ridiculous for all but the most serious track racer/autocrosser. It's great on the track but a little harsh on the street. I'd suggest something in the range of 450F/375R (The Teins I believe are well over 600?). H&R also makes a coil-over kit I believe, though I don't know much else about it. Also, you can forget about the "best" setup. The "best" setup varies from person to person and how much you have to spend. And no one wants to see you ballin' straight or otherwise.
 

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Tiens

Yes, Koni/GC is a proven setup. But Teins are proven on cars like the WRC Corolla. Todd mentioned them rusting... I live in NJ and we had one of the worst winters here and mine are still fine. I just high-power rinse them every month or so to keep them clean. With pillowballs my camber is -2.5'/-1.0' F/R at a 60mm drop.

The setup I wanted before was GAB Super HP/GC/Apexi pillowballs... but that would have cost me $1200 and I got the HA's for $1000 used in mint condition.

It's been 30,000 miles and I consider them just broken in... the ride has slowly gotten smoother and more comfortable, although there's the annoying shock knock. Hopefully by the time I get them revalved in a couple of years I'll be skilled enough to take full advantage of the adjustability.

Between the NA and Koni/GC though, the latter is more bang/$. :)


Alex
 
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