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I got my new collars yesterday and installed them, and took some pics with my digicam while I was at it. I'll post a detailed procedure when I have time (How do the rest of you post pics? Photopoint.com/etc.?)

The short of it is, the new collars ARE different, Matt Hyder was on the right track with his fix, and I DO still have some knock (though it is less than before). Details to come....

Kraut
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by KrautLude:

I got my new collars yesterday and installed them, and took some pics with my digicam while I was at it. I'll post a detailed procedure when I have time (How do the rest of you post pics? Photopoint.com/etc.?)

The short of it is, the new collars ARE different, Matt Hyder was on the right track with his fix, and I DO still have some knock (though it is less than before). Details to come....

Kraut
</font>

I use Photopoint it's much more reliable then something like Geocities.

Are the collars longer?

And is the knock only from the passenger side rear still?
 

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Thanks, I'll give that a shot.

On my car I think the noise is more on the driver's side but it has always been hard to tell, plus I think I have some sunroof / trim noise back there too (anyone know how to fix THAT?)

The new collars are exactly 2mm SHORTER than the stock collars and are made of a slightly different material. They are 10mm ID, 14mm OD (just like the old ones) but 39mm tall vs 41mm tall. This makes sense if you look at Matt's diagram of the shock mount area; shorter collars would mean that the top base plate compresses the top bushing more before it comes in contact with the collars, thus doing something very similar (but not quite identical) to Matt's washer fix.

Kraut
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by KrautLude:
The new collars are exactly 2mm SHORTER than the stock collars and are made of a slightly different material.</font>
This is strange....I thought that they would've been longer to tell you the truth. *scratches head* Hmmmmmmmm...

Edit...........My reason is this......in that TSB they claimed that the probable cause was that the collars compressed over time.....which lead me to believe that a longer and stronger one would be the fix. Strange.

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[This message has been edited by Joon525 (edited March 28, 2001).]
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Joon525:
This is strange....I thought that they would've been longer to tell you the truth. *scratches head* Hmmmmmmmm...

Edit...........My reason is this......in that TSB they claimed that the probable cause was that the collars compressed over time.....which lead me to believe that a longer and stronger one would be the fix. Strange.

</font>
I thought the same thing. I'll have to look at the design over again and maybe it'll make sense that way.

Someone else had mentioned that the reason the knock is so pronounced in the passenger rear is because that's the lightest corner. I would think making the collar **longer** would take up some more of the extra slack.
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Joon525:
This is strange....I thought that they would've been longer to tell you the truth. *scratches head* Hmmmmmmmm...

Edit...........My reason is this......in that TSB they claimed that the probable cause was that the collars compressed over time.....which lead me to believe that a longer and stronger one would be the fix. Strange.

</font>
Actually the tsb claims that the "upper spacers" compress over time; I'm not sure that means the collars. The collars do have a seam down them which I suppose could compress over time (my stock ones did not look "compressed" in this fashion).

At any rate if you look at the diagram you'll see why SHORTER collars=more compression of the bushing, hence less "slack". The bushing sticks out over the top of the collar before you tighten anything down. As a result the top damper mount washer (where the nut pushes when you tighten it down) puts pressure on the bushing, spreading it out, before it stops by contacting the top of the collar. By making the collar shorter there is more room for the damper mount washer to descend, compressing the bushing further, before the damper mount washer contacts the collar which halts any further compression. If you made the collar longer you would have less pressure on the bushing before the damper mount washer stopped at the collar.

This accomplishes close to the same thing as adding the washers, allowing more compression of the bushing (remember the washers were to go AROUND the collars, not press down on them directly). The only real difference seems to be the implementation.

Kraut
 

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Yeah I see what you are saying........I just thought of it this way....if you heard a metal on metal "banging" noise, it can only mean that there's space between the 2 pieces. Hence if you made the collar longer it would eliminate this noise by taking up the space that was available for the 2 parts to travel in. See what I mean?

Don't get me wrong though......your explanation DOES indeed make sense to me...I'm wondering what what happen if you did the collar swap AND the washer trick???

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KRAUT: You are on the right track. I have the Koni Sport shocks which came w/ its own collar. So what I did was purchased some new Honda bushings and the noise went away. The new bushings were of the same material, but thicker; the old bushings evidently became thinner and even worse after i tried the "shockknockfix*.

Now, hopefully these Honda busings won't wear-down again. If it does i'll have to go w/ aftermarket (ie: Energy Suspension).

BTW: w/ the TSB stating that replacing the collar was the fix, i knew that the new collars would be shorter. I think that they should replace the bushings too.

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Discussion Starter #9
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Joon525:
Yeah I see what you are saying........I just thought of it this way....if you heard a metal on metal "banging" noise, it can only mean that there's space between the 2 pieces. Hence if you made the collar longer it would eliminate this noise by taking up the space that was available for the 2 parts to travel in. See what I mean?

Don't get me wrong though......your explanation DOES indeed make sense to me...I'm wondering what what happen if you did the collar swap AND the washer trick???

</font>
I thought something similar. But now I think the metal/metal contact occurs during a wiggling or side-to-side motion of the shock shaft, not a vertical motion. This is why the bushing comes into play as it is there to absorb all such lateral motion yet also ensure vibration of the shock shaft isn't transmitted directly to the body (bushings are rarely used anywhere in suspensions except for comfort/noise concerns; ideally everything would be welded to everything else
).

Notice there are two bushings and they are separated by a plate; there is really no up-and-down motion (along the axis of the collar) that can occur as the upper plate always clamps down quite solidly on the collar, so there can't be any movement between the top of the shock and that plate unless something is very loose.

To your question about the new collars and the washers both being used, I think that would just allow the top bushing to be compressed even further. This might be too much deflection of the bushing however and that might cause the bushing to deform somewhat and actually do more harm than good (similar to Matt's comments about not adding too many washers in his fix). I have a feeling any further improvement would be in working on the bottom bushing area, or just using tougher bushings.

NVR2FST: Your experiences make sense to me, as it is ultimately still the bushing that does the work of keeping all the metal parts separate. The stock collars are just a bit too long to allow the bushing to be sufficiently compressed. New bushings would be best, though I would also want to replace the lower bushing which isn't nearly as easy to get to as the upper. I'd also like to use a much firmer bushing, even if it did transmit more vibration to the body. Unfortunately I don't know of anyone who sells these bushings in a different material....

Kraut
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by KrautLude:
I thought something similar. But now I think the metal/metal contact occurs during a wiggling or side-to-side motion of the shock shaft, not a vertical motion. </font>
You gave me an idea.....what if we got a silicon tube that was the same length of the collar and had an ID the same as that stem that comes out of the shock and an OD the same as the ID of the collar, and then placed this over that stem and IN the collar so as to act as a cushion between the two?

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by KrautLude:

Unfortunately I don't know of anyone who sells these bushings in a different material....
</font>
I think Spoon makes bushings for our car...that guy with the nordic mist 5th gen with the white TE37's has them.

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Ray your idea seems to be right but I'm betting when you get everything apart there isn't that much slack between the two to get anything else in there. The only thing I could think of maybe trying would be some teflon tape on the shaft??? Just about anything is worth a shot though.

If you wanna try to fix the threads on the TEIN's hit me with an email on Friday and I'll let you know what my schedule is for the weekend.
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by THATPRELUDEGUY:
Ray your idea seems to be right but I'm betting when you get everything apart there isn't that much slack between the two to get anything else in there. The only thing I could think of maybe trying would be some teflon tape on the shaft??? Just about anything is worth a shot though.

If you wanna try to fix the threads on the TEIN's hit me with an email on Friday and I'll let you know what my schedule is for the weekend.
</font>
Perfect.....you wanna help me put in my rear sway bar? It came in the mail today.

Thank you Dr. James!



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