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Discussion Starter #1
Okay I know I've read about this problem and solution before. I thought it had to do with the removal of the ATTS fuse, but now I can't find info on this anywhere. Before it wasn't a problem since it only happened in parking lots, but I did Solo 2 this past weekend and the problem kicked in during two parts of the course.

I guess I'll first explain the problem.

98 SH, 33Kms, First set of tires.

Okay. What's happening is what FEELS like temporary loss of power steering.

During quick turns of the wheel from one direction and quickly to the other (doesn't have to be lock to lock, but it's probably close) the wheel gets VERY hard to turn.. in fact I have to pull it hand over hand, which results in overly wide turns in autox. This problem DOES go away after a few seconds and steering is back to normal. It occurred in the same 2 places on ALL 8 runs of the event this past weekend. So it's not an intermittent thing with the power steering, it's specific conditions, and they appear to be quick lock to lock turns.

Is this somehow ATTS? I looked at TSB's and there's nothing there for Power steering...

What do you guys know about it?
 

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The 5gen prelude has a power steering that is supposedly "speed sensitive". This is partially true. The power steering is engine speed sensitive....meaning, the higher the RPM, the less power steering available.

Most auto-x courses are small enuf to do it all in first gear, in the prelude anyway, so you're always revving high, as a result, no power steering.

I bet ATTS will increase the heavy feel as well, as the torque is mostly on the outside wheel in the turn.

I experienced this during my auto-x weekends as well, and i think this issue has come up before on this board.

Don't worry, there's nothing wrong with your car, you'll get the hang of working the steering wheel, and also allowing it to center by itself instead of fighting it
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Hmm.. I don't think we're talking about the same thing, although the two points of the course where this occurs are right after the highest speed portions. But the RPM's would be down from hard braking. Besides I have this occur in parking lots, if I make a quick right then left, or vice versa.. the feel of loss of power sterring occurs.

See I have to *FIGHT* the wheel around to the other side. This really is unacceptable to me for autox. There must be a solution. I'm sure if I didn't fight the wheel around, the wheel would not center. I don't see how there is time to let the wheel center in the portions of that course.
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by taylor:
Hmm.. I don't think we're talking about the same thing, although the two points of the course where this occurs are right after the highest speed portions. But the RPM's would be down from hard braking. Besides I have this occur in parking lots, if I make a quick right then left, or vice versa.. the feel of loss of power sterring occurs.

See I have to *FIGHT* the wheel around to the other side. This really is unacceptable to me for autox. There must be a solution. I'm sure if I didn't fight the wheel around, the wheel would not center. I don't see how there is time to let the wheel center in the portions of that course.
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Billy (71DSP) will be able to answer this much better but I'm pretty sure it's a problem with our power steering pumps. There's something in the design that makes them temporarily "give out" in high RPM quick steering moves. I've had it happen to my car when I snapped the car into a driveway lane in a mall when someone cut me off. I was only going say 10mph at the most but was turning left and had to snap the car more then 90 degrees right so I didn't kill this dumb ass. I'm pretty certain the ATTS has nothing to do with this at all.
 

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It's a known problem with all 5th gens. Both my 98 Sportshift and 01 SH do it. There's not much you can do about it, other than just muscle it around. After a while you get used to it. I try and sit as close to the wheel as possible, so I can get more leverage. As 98 San Marino SH said, the PS is rpm dependent, so it helps a little to be running in a higher gear.

If your local club likes to set up really tight courses, then you're out of luck. Most of the clubs I run with abide by SCCA minimum width and radius, so the power steering loss isn't really a problem.
 
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It's a "problem" with the pump and system design. The loss of PS pressure happens no matter what gear you're in. It seems that the pump cannot keep up with the demand from the rack.

I have thought about going with a manual rack to get around this, but I haven't had time to seriously look into it.

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Billy
North Texas Prelude Owners Group
www.ntpog.org
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Hmm.. well if I can't get it fixed. I doubt I'll be racing the 'lude anymore. I'm sure even with my new amateur autox skills .5-.8 seconds could have been shaved if the wheel would have turned like it should.

Then again, at this point.. I could attribute at least 5-8 seconds towards my amateur skills


No TSB on this nyah?
 
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by taylor:
Hmm.. well if I can't get it fixed. I doubt I'll be racing the 'lude anymore. I'm sure even with my new amateur autox skills .5-.8 seconds could have been shaved if the wheel would have turned like it should.

Then again, at this point.. I could attribute at least 5-8 seconds towards my amateur skills


No TSB on this nyah?
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You should concentrate on getting around this handicap. I haven't had any problems with it except for a few autocrosses. The majority of the time, it doesn't happen. I found that if you learn to be smoother, it helps quite a bit.

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Billy
North Texas Prelude Owners Group
www.ntpog.org
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by taylor:
Hmm.. well if I can't get it fixed. I doubt I'll be racing the 'lude anymore. I'm sure even with my new amateur autox skills .5-.8 seconds could have been shaved if the wheel would have turned like it should.

Then again, at this point.. I could attribute at least 5-8 seconds towards my amateur skills :)

No TSB on this nyah?
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You can fix it with your driving. Since I've paid attention to being more smooth, not yanking the wheel with all my might and not snapping off the throttle, I haven't had a problem.

I firmly believe it's that at high RPMs the pump is "waning" in terms of pressure delivered to the rack (this is a function of the RPM-based assist). It appears to be agitated by aggressive steering input and snapping the throttle shut. Not entirely sure why, but since I've eliminated these two conditions, my p/s has been fine.

It's a poor design (IMHO), but it's something that can be driver-controlled.

I have yet to hear anything about it, but I'm suspicious that the 3rd and 4th gens' systems (actual SPEED based, not RPM based) don't have this problem.
 
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