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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have been corresponding with Mr. Baumgartner of Unorthodox Racing for a couple of days now. I have a few comments to add to all of the debate that is surrounding the subject of solid crank pulleys, and their use on the H22.

I have asked Mr. Baumgartner twice for any type of data to back up his claims, and I have yet to receive any type of data, testimonials, etc. If/when I receive this data, I will be sure to let everyone know.

Just for the record, my pulley was a copy of the UR pulley, however, the balance issue is not as important as most would believe, since the metal is quite homogeneous to begin with and as a consequence, the pulley is already balanced quite well. I have asked UR for their tolerances to which their pulleys are built (runout, concentricity, and balance). Mr. Baumgartner "guarantees" that any pulley not made by him is out of balance and out of concentricity. Again, I have asked him for some data to back this claim up. As soon as I hear something, I will be happy to let everyone know.

Also for the record, the modifications at the time were a GReddy PE exhaust and an AEM intake. A lightweight flywheel was added much later, and only 5k miles or so were put on the engine with the lightweight flywheel and solid crank pulley.

Total miles on the engine before the tear down was 45k miles.

Total miles on the engine with the solid crank pulley was around 30k miles.

Every piece of routine maintenance was done, that is not an issue. Driving style is not as well, as the car is quite babied on the street. At the track the clutch is not dumped, and the shifts are not hard, slamming shifts.

Also, the oil pump did NOT fail. The oil pump was in perfect working condition when the engine was taken apart. The engine builder noticed that there are grooves in the pump caused by excessive vibration. The grooves were severe enough that he recommended that the oil pump be replaced with a new one.

The bearings look progressively worse as you go from the flywheel end (#5) to the crank pulley end (#1). If oil was an issue, I would expect the damage to be more evenly distributed. As it stands, the bearings go in perfect order from very good, good, fair, bad, and horrible, going from #5 to #1. I am more than happy to post these pictures if someone will provide a server for me.

I do not have the oil pump in my possession. As soon as I do, I will post pictures.

For those of you who do not know, Larry Widmer of Endyn is my engine builder. Those of you who have heard of Larry know the extent of his knowledge and vast experience with any type of engine, not just Honda. Larry is also very outspoken on his dislike for solid crank pulleys. Prior to the engine tear down, Larry and I discussed the issue at length since I had just purchased a full set of UR pulleys to install. Larry does not make any sort of underdrive pulley, and he has no plans to. He also does not have any interest in any company that produces any type of underdrive pulley. His statements are not economically or politically motivated. He speaks directly from his experience and his knowledge on the subject. After talking to him again tonight about the crank pulley, I am convinced that this damage could not be caused by anything other than the pulley. I asked about normal bearing wear, and he replied that bearings will wear quite evenly, which is contrary to the condition in which my bearings were found. He also stated that my oil pump was in perfect working order, so the lubrication system was not at fault. The fact that the bearings get progressively worse from load side to pulley side indicates that the vibration worsens as you move away from the load, i.e. the vibrations are more and more undamped as you move away from the load end, thus this causes more bearing wear as the crank is hitting the bearings.

Larry's comments on solid hub pulleys can be found at:

http://www.theoldone.com/archive/pullies_oilpump_n_balancer.htm

Another point that Larry brought up is that auto manufacturers are very cheap (the almighty dollar rules everything), and a solid pulley could be mass produced for less than the cost of a two piece damped pulley. If a solid crank pulley worked just fine, auto makers would do it in a heart beat. With the production levels that Honda is operating at, saving $1 per car would add up to quite a savings for them, so why spend so much money on a damped pulley if it's unnecessary?

For those of you who want to use solid crank pulleys, regardless, I would recommend UR's pulleys. I have been very pleased with the attention to detail on their cam gears. I am convinced that their cam gears are the absolute best on the market. I would also venture to say that their solid crank pulleys are the best as well, HOWEVER, I will NOT recommend the use of ANY solid crank pulley for use on an H22 engine.

I would like to thank Mr. Baumgartner for coming onto a public forum like this to discuss this issue. However, Mr. Baumgartner the discussion is far from over.

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Billy
North Texas Prelude Owners Group
www.ntpog.org

[This message has been edited by 71dsp (edited April 12, 2001).]
 

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Good Shiet!


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2000 Type SH
Wanted: Type S Intake Chamber

FOR SALE: Pirelli Ice Assymetrical Snow Tires Mounted/Balanced on 5th Gen. Base Rims.
Used for 2k miles. $600+shipping.
New JDM H3C bulbs $50
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Oops, I forgot!

Going from top to bottom.
Pic1: #1 on bottom, #5 on top
Pic2: #1 on bottom, #5 on top
Pic3: #1 on bottom, #5 on top
Pic4: #1 on left, #5 on right
Pic5: #1 on right, #5 on left


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Billy
North Texas Prelude Owners Group
www.ntpog.org
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Actually, they are awesome! I really like them, but I am not sure that they are worth $600+.

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Billy
North Texas Prelude Owners Group
www.ntpog.org
 

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7,514 Posts
Well, Im sorry that it happened to ya, but I am glad that there is substantiated EXPERIENCE now with them to back up everything that has been said.


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If you only knew the power of the Lude...
'98 Red Base Prelude
"Straights are for fast cars. Turns are for fast drivers." - SCCA Solo2
AEM CAI, APEX-i VAFC, Neuspeed Ft Up Strut Bar, 28 mm Neuspeed RR Sway Bar, Neuspeed Sport Springs, Koni Yellows, and SH RR Deck installed. Shock knock cure done. Installing Quaife ATB Differential.
 
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