[BlueShadow]

i've been debating on which type of fuel mgmt. to get, a DRAG or go with a piggyback or standalone. my question is at what point(PSI) will the DRAG method start to be unreliable, insufficient or inefficient or whatever? will it work safely up to 6-8PSI (or whatever the stock motor PSI level is)

i guess i could always upgrade the fuel mgmt. and bottom end if i plan on boosting higher than 6-8PSI.

------------------
2001 EBP Prelude
(Base 5 sp)
Mods:
CF Altezza
AEM CAI
Tanabe G-Power Medallion
Ground Control Coilovers

 

[pter]

I'm so gone, I don't even understand your question?

Are you talking about fuel management, turbos, or both?

 

[BlueShadow]

i meant should i go with DRAG's fuel mgmt system. boost dependent fuel pressure regulator on stock injectors. i believe thats what it uses. would it be good enogh for running high amounts of boost? 8PSI and up?



------------------
2001 EBP Prelude
(Base 5 sp)
Mods:
CF Altezza
AEM CAI
Tanabe G-Power Medallion
Ground Control Coilovers

 

[71dsp]

I don't know about DRAG's stuff, but stock injectors can't handle really high fuel pressures.

Before you buy anything, do as much research as you can. Most of the bolt on FI kits are only 80% complete, you really need other things to get the car to run reliably. Also, going above 7 psi or so is not a good idea on a stock bottom end.

------------------
Billy
North Texas Prelude Owners Group
www.ntpog.org

 

[pter]

I think you should really figure out what you want and what you are going to use.

Do you want to run stock stuff? Then typically you'll be limited to 6-8psi.

Do you want to run higher boost? Then work in the costs to build you motor up. At least the bottom end. And you know... that takes time, meaning downtime for you car.

What you might look into doing, if you have resources, is researching and building a turbo to run low psi. Say 4-8psi, just for daily driving. I think this'll let you keep stock stuff for the most part. Then, if it ain't enough, buy an additional block and build that, while still enjoying your daily driver. When that gets built, swap it into your car, and sell your stock block.

Good idea, right?

 

[BlueShadow]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by 71dsp:
I don't know about DRAG's stuff, but stock injectors can't handle really high fuel pressures.

Before you buy anything, do as much research as you can. Most of the bolt on FI kits are only 80% complete, you really need other things to get the car to run reliably. Also, going above 7 psi or so is not a good idea on a stock bottom end.

</font>

believe me i've done a lot of research on the subject. i've also bought Corky Bells book "maximum boost". but i might get the DRAG fuel mgmt system temporarily and eventually upgrade to bigger injectors/PMS or maybe even a standalone.
but about stock engine PSI levels, whats the highest PSI i should run? 7psi? 6? err 4psi?

whatever the psi limit is, it would have hold for at least a year till i get the bottom end built up.



------------------
2001 EBP Prelude
(Base 5 sp)
Mods:
CF Altezza
AEM CAI
Tanabe G-Power Medallion
Ground Control Coilovers

 

[71dsp]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by BlueShadow:
believe me i've done a lot of research on the subject. i've also bought Corky Bells book "maximum boost". but i might get the DRAG fuel mgmt system temporarily and eventually upgrade to bigger injectors/PMS or maybe even a standalone.
but about stock engine PSI levels, whats the highest PSI i should run? 7psi? 6? err 4psi?

whatever the psi limit is, it would have hold for at least a year till i get the bottom end built up.
</font>

Just run boost higher until your engine says BOOM! Then you know the max!

I hope you know what you're getting into with a stand alone..... (if you get one).

------------------
Billy
North Texas Prelude Owners Group
www.ntpog.org

 

[BlueShadow]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by pter:

buy an additional block and build that, while still enjoying your daily driver. When that gets built, swap it into your car, and sell your stock block.

Good idea, right?</font>

say that is a good idea! i've never though of it that way. it would definately save on downtime. although if noone buys my stock block im kinda screwed. but i guess it could also be used as a backup.


------------------
2001 EBP Prelude
(Base 5 sp)
Mods:
CF Altezza
AEM CAI
Tanabe G-Power Medallion
Ground Control Coilovers

 

[71dsp]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by BlueShadow:
say that is a good idea! i've never though of it that way. it would definately save on downtime. although if noone buys my stock block im kinda screwed. but i guess it could also be used as a backup. </font>

You're going to spend $7k+ on a turbo and build up, and worry about spending less than $1k on a block? You can buy just a block used pretty cheap. Besides, I am sure you could sell your stock block for at least $500 or so, probably more.

------------------
Billy
North Texas Prelude Owners Group
www.ntpog.org

 

[pter]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by BlueShadow:
say that is a good idea! i've never though of it that way. it would definately save on downtime. although if noone buys my stock block im kinda screwed. but i guess it could also be used as a backup.
</font>

Yeah, you could constantly be switching blocks. Or you could always sell it to a Civic guy for a swap

 

[BlueShadow]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by 71dsp:
Just run boost higher until your engine says BOOM! Then you know the max!

</font>

*in his best mongoloid voice* duh, ok

I hope you know what you're getting into with a stand alone..... (if you get one).

yes i've heard that full standalones can be pretty expensive. but i suppose that the DRAG fuel mgmt will have to do. at least temporarily.



------------------
2001 EBP Prelude
(Base 5 sp)
Mods:
CF Altezza
AEM CAI
Tanabe G-Power Medallion
Ground Control Coilovers

 

[71dsp]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by BlueShadow:
yes i've heard that full standalones can be pretty expensive. but i suppose that the DRAG fuel mgmt will have to do. at least temporarily.</font>

It's not the price of the ECU, or the install, it's the tuning....be prepared.

Also, on build ups like this, factor in probably about $2k more than you plan to spend. Trust me, I speak from experience. I am waaaaaaay over budget on my build up.

------------------
Billy
North Texas Prelude Owners Group
www.ntpog.org

 

[BlueShadow]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by 71dsp:
You're going to spend $7k+ on a turbo and build up, and worry about spending less than $1k on a block? You can buy just a block used pretty cheap. Besides, I am sure you could sell your stock block for at least $500 or so, probably more.

</font>

i always thought that getting my bottom end built would be a long process. but thanks to pter i think i may go ahead and get a extra used block and start building that up. i guess i have a one track mind.

but i might definately keep the old block "just incase"



------------------
2001 EBP Prelude
(Base 5 sp)
Mods:
CF Altezza
AEM CAI
Tanabe G-Power Medallion
Ground Control Coilovers

 

[71dsp]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by BlueShadow:
i always thought that getting my bottom end built would be a long process. but thanks to pter i think i may go ahead and get a extra used block and start building that up. i guess i have a one track mind.

but i might definately keep the old block "just incase"</font>

Do you plan on doing the work yourself or giving it to an engine builder?

------------------
Billy
North Texas Prelude Owners Group
www.ntpog.org

[This message has been edited by 71dsp (edited April 07, 2001).]

 

[BlueShadow]

looks like we're moving way OT here, but since you guys are here: just out of curiousity how much detonation could a fully built h22 take? and how much psi can it take? im guessing a lot but whats the number 20psi-30?

and now that we're on the subject of building motors what are all the steps?
( know of some but not all) and what about the head does it need any kind of build-up?(valves springs and retainers?)

EDIT: oh and i would be giving it to a shop (the block)

------------------
2001 EBP Prelude
(Base 5 sp)
Mods:
CF Altezza
AEM CAI
Tanabe G-Power Medallion
Ground Control Coilovers



[This message has been edited by BlueShadow (edited April 07, 2001).]

 

[71dsp]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by BlueShadow:
just out of curiousity how much detonation could a fully built h22 take? and how much psi can it take? im guessing a lot but whats the number 20psi-30?

and now that we're on the subject of building motors what are all the steps?
( know of some but not all) and what about the head does it need any kind of build-up?(valves springs and retainers?)
</font>

How much detonation can a built H22 take? I don't think anyone has any idea. Detonation can destroy an engine, regardless of how it's built up. That's something you want to stay away from at all costs.

As far as turbo boost, it depends on your budget. You will have to get some seriously strong rods (Carillo or Cunningham custom rods) to handle really high boost. Keep in mind that those rods run about $400 to $500 EACH. The pistons will also need to be made to handle it, the block will have to be pinned, you will need strong head bolts, and other misc. hardware. 90% of the stuff will have to be custom made.

If you want to know about engine building buy a book on bluepriting V8s. The engine is different, but the process is just about the same. Inspect everything, check clearances, balance everything, recheck clearances, etc.

As for stuff specific to the H22, this is what I would do for FI:

block:
new pistons
new rods
oil pump modifications
water pump modifications
have crank inspected (check for runout, etc)
remove balance shafts
balance rotating and reciprocating assembly

head:
headwork
cams
valve springs
ti retainers

intake manifold:
port
block EGR
injectors
fuel rail
adjustable fuel pressure regulator
throttle body

other stuff:
exhaust (custom 3")
custom manifold
fuel computer
clutch
flywheel
LSD

Probably missed a few things, but you get the idea.

------------------
Billy
North Texas Prelude Owners Group
www.ntpog.org

 

[BlueShadow]

cool thanks for the breakdown 71DSP, i just cut and pasted that for later use. but i prolly wouldn't run higher than 10-14psi. but would the DRAG fuel mgmt work reliably with 10-14psi?

------------------
2001 EBP Prelude
(Base 5 sp)
Mods:
CF Altezza
AEM CAI
Tanabe G-Power Medallion
Ground Control Coilovers