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WHITE RUSSIAN !
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I decided to get some balls and get the CROWER STAGE 2 cams for my SS lude, with Skunk 2 cam gears.

I know some of you might put me down saying how its pointless and i wont see any gains, but i really want what lilttle gains it will give. I'm hoping to get at least 10whp to the ground. REMEMBER I SAID HOPING.

I decided to go without Springs and Retainers, because I have auto and there is no need for it since my red line will stay the same. This is also a way to keep my car on a safe side as much as possible.

The shop said it will take about 3 - 4 hours and they gonna charge 300+ based on amount of work and with hopes that nothing will go wrong.

I will try to keep you posted on the situation. and how it goes. I just hope i'm not making a big mistake taking this much of a step.

Few questions: Are Skunk 2 cam gears good enough to use with Crower cams?
Do i need to break the cams in at all after the install......I heard 500 miles ... but just trying to double check?
How soon after should i dyno tune it? ALso how do i know how many degrees is each mark on the Skunk 2's ?

Well thats it for my rambling.... sorry if its to long
:eek:
PS - knowing my luck...something will go wrong :mad:
 

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Depending on how many miles are on your car and how competent the shop that you're getting to do the work you may want to do a timing belt change as well since half of the items are removed for the camshaft install anyway.

Break in is a few hundred miles to allow time for the camshafts to mate well with the cam holders. What are your mods that are on the car or will be on the car with the cams? Skunk2 cam gears are fine. IIRC (don't quote me on it) I think every mark is 2 degrees on the S2 cam gears.
 

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WHITE RUSSIAN !
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
TimeRacer said:
Depending on how many miles are on your car and how competent the shop that you're getting to do the work you may want to do a timing belt change as well since half of the items are removed for the camshaft install anyway.
I have 31,XXX mile on the car. I dont beat on the car and try to stay out of VTEC as much as possible. I change the oil every 3-4 miles and use CASTROL SYNTEC since they one and then MOBIL ! TRI SYNTHETIC and after cams are in will switch to AMSOIL FULL SYNTH.

I do push the car once in a while...but its mostly like once a week for a bit while driving to work. Other wise i try to baby her.

The shop knows their SHEET... they have a S2k SUPERCHARGED by Comptech. Its been in HONDA TUNING ..on the cover and they been building fast cars since begining of 90s... back then they use to have TYPE Rs conversions, Turbo civics, integras..you name it.

Since i have only 30 K on the motor... i dont think timing belt is needed yet may be after 20K more then i'll change it.
TimeRacer said:
Break in is a few hundred miles to allow time for the camshafts to mate well with the cam holders. What are your mods that are on the car or will be on the car with the cams? Skunk2 cam gears are fine. IIRC (don't quote me on it) I think every mark is 2 degrees on the S2 cam gears.
I will defently will try to put at least 500 miles on the car with new Cams before pushing into VTEC. Then after the break in i will swap out to AMSOIL SYNTHETIC oil in time for the PRELUDE NATIONAL MEET.

As of now the mods are all basic bolt ons: AEM CAI/DC CC header/ APexi Dunk exhaust/ AEM Pulleys/ APexi VAFC.

I might get my DC CC moded just like DYI0** (something) to weld a bigger collector on it. I'm hoping to get it more free flowing.

What does IIRC mean???:confused:
 

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WHITE RUSSIAN !
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
bdb said:
With stage 2 I'd get the springs and not neccesarily retainers.
I did want to get springs, but that will cost more ...and my budget doesnt allow for it. Also i talked to a number of people who said that springs might not be needed since its and auto and my red line will not be changed. They will wear out faster... but by then i will hope to have more money to do a head rebuilt. Also the labor to take the head out will kill me. Since they will have to keep the car there for a few days and send out the head to be checked out. My car is a daily driver and i cant do without it.
 

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Are you getting the Crower Stage 2s with the stock idle lobes (the "-A" cams), or the more radical ones? Either way, you could get the portflow inner coil spring set as a cheaper alternative to an all-new valvetrain - they only cost about $80 and I believe they work with the stock retainers. I'm probably going go this route when I do cams (way down the road)...

Crower literature states that you should NOT use synthetic oil while breaking in their cams, and that they recommend non-synthetic, petroleum-based motor oil for use with their products in general. Take that for what it's worth...
 

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WHITE RUSSIAN !
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
GP.45 said:
Are you getting the Crower Stage 2s with the stock idle lobes (the "-A" cams), or the more radical ones? Either way, you could get the portflow inner coil spring set as a cheaper alternative to an all-new valvetrain - they only cost about $80 and I believe they work with the stock retainers. I'm probably going go this route when I do cams (way down the road)...

Crower literature states that you should NOT use synthetic oil while breaking in their cams, and that they recommend non-synthetic, petroleum-based motor oil for use with their products in general. Take that for what it's worth...
I'm getting the stock idle lobes, since no one could really tell me for sure how the car would run at idle with NON STOCK idle lobes. I dont want it to have lumpy idle and since i'm going with a more conservative set up .... i figure stock idle lobes will be fine. Not my choice first choice... but i need the car to be in good runing order.

I'm not going with POrtFLow inner springs because... i would have to take out the whole head for that. If i do that i might as well get the whole spring kit. But like i stated before it all comes down to money.

I never heard of CROWER recomending regular motor oil. I will call them up and check into it. But i dont really see how Synthetic wouldnt actually help the car or cams in this situation.
I"m not saying you wrong.... but just seems strange.
 

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TimeRacer said:


Brian, do you know if the Crower springs work with the stock retainers? I've e-mailed them about it and never received a response about it.
Yes, they do.
 

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Oh yeah GET the stock idle lobes if your running the original ECU. I have the stage 2's without the stock idle lobes and while I had the stock computer it was aweful -- the car would be stalling out all the time when coming to a stop. With my Hondata that is now all be corrected.
 

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WHITE RUSSIAN !
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
how do you like your stage 2s I know you got 5spd and i got auto... but did you feel the power difference?

did you do anyting else to the head while it was out?

what oil are you using with the cams? GP 45 stated above that I should use regualr oil?
 

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SK Honda 7 said:
how do you like your stage 2s I know you got 5spd and i got auto... but did you feel the power difference?

did you do anyting else to the head while it was out?

what oil are you using with the cams? GP 45 stated above that I should use regualr oil?
I think they're pretty good, but it's hard to say since I have quite a bit done and I'm used to the power now. I remember them being having great pull from 3500 - 5400 and then they really start to come on around 6250. You'll notice the difference.

I run AMSOil 10w-30.
 

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SK Honda 7 said:
...what oil are you using with the cams? GP 45 stated above that I should use regualr oil?
Note that I didn't say that you should use regular oil - I said that Crower says to use regular (i.e., non-synthetic) oil.

From their install instructions document, available online ( http://www.crower.com/pdf/honda_installation.pdf ):

14. INSTALL TIMING BELT AND ADJUST VALVE LASH. DO NOT USE SYNTHETIC OIL DURING BREAK-IN. CROWER RECOMMENDS ONLY PETROLEUM BASED OILS.
Hmm. There's also some contradictory info from the same document:

H22 VTEC
CAUTION – If running over .450 gross lift on intake or .415 gross lift on exhaust stock springs and retainers will not work. Severe valve train damage will occur. Use spring & retainer kit #84167. Kits include #87093D (+.060" retainer for added inst height).
Hell, even their Stage 1 cam exceeds those numbers - it pushes .459" intake and .428" exhaust on the VTEC lobes.

I think they're just trying to sell more of their $500 spring/retainer kits...
 

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WHITE RUSSIAN !
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
GP 45

I think they ARE trying to sell more of their stuff. There are soo many people that run stage 1 without any springs and they seem to do fine.

I do agree with them and others that over time the spring will become soft and will need replacement, but i'm sure i cant at least go and make it to at least 50-60K on them.

As far as oil goes, I will call crower to confirm it. I didnt mean that YOU specifically stated to use Mineral oil...i mean Just you ..with out pointing fingers.

BDB - is using AMSOIL 10w 30.... i wonder if he actually used that oil from the begining. Also... BDB... why are you using such high oil as oppose to 5w30 How many miles are on the motor.

Which AMSOIL are you using? the 2000 series or the 7500
 

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I still don't understand why they recomend you don't use synthetic. I can see it for the whole engine. Oh well, I'll let you guys know if my motor blows with my castrol syntec 5-30w.
 

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i think thats just plain stupid.....how come with other cams you dont have to run non synthetic oil durin break in??? or do you?

The shop knows their SHEET... they have a S2k SUPERCHARGED by Comptech. Its been in HONDA TUNING ..on the cover and they been building fast cars since begining of 90s... back then they use to have TYPE Rs conversions, Turbo civics, integras..you name it.
hey SKHonda7...what shop is this??? where is it located?? if you dont mind me asking
 

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WHITE RUSSIAN !
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
MugenPoweredLude said:
i think thats just plain stupid.....how come with other cams you dont have to run non synthetic oil durin break in??? or do you?



hey SKHonda7...what shop is this??? where is it located?? if you dont mind me asking
shop is called ULTIMA they are located in Lindenhurst NY. Its on south shore of Long Island.
chekc out their site. http://www.ultimaperformance.com
 

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WHITE RUSSIAN !
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
bolivianfuego said:
Hey SK, to make the most power dont you gotta raise your rev limiter? How do you plan on doing this with your auto tranny.
Yes you right... these cams do come really alive on top end, but it doesnt mean that they will not produce power before that. These cams usually shine anywhere from 3000 rpm and up.

I'm not planing on increasing my rev limiter since i would need to get Springs and retainers for that. Thats not in my budget at this point. Plus for the sake of auto i dont want to push it all that much. To tell you the truth the SS can be shifted at 8k but why would you want to.... even on a 5spd that can cause damage with these cams.

the addition of the cam gears will help me dial in the power band and move it to where i want it ...which is mid range and upper range. For a daily driver...thats the only thing i'm looking to accomplishing.
 
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