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Buying Alarm??? Read This First!!trust Me !!!!

i'VE been in the mobile audio-industry for about 2 years now workin on custom installs, and alarms. And to tell you the truth, as an installer i really cant recommend ANY type of alarm other than clifford. My car curently has the avant guard in it and once i arm it, i couldn't steal my own car without disarming it. DO NOT GO CHEAP ON YOUR ALARM THERE IS A REASON WHY ONE COSTS $400 compared to $99, reason is this:

reason 1- 99%(which includes viper,python,bicron, clarion ungo, alpine, KARR, and the endless # off brands) of alarms use a basic relay switch to trigger the siren. Meaning that once the alarm detects a trigger, it simply shoots a hot to the siren thus giving power, thus making noise. EVERY one that steals cars has knowledge of this. Therefore, when someone is trying to jack your car, he simply reaches under and cuts the only wire that is comeing through your firewall. the whole preocedure takes 10 seconds. BAM..your alarm has been disabled.

reason 2- the ignition kills provided in 99% of alarms are a joke. There are five pins on the side of a relay. when an alarm is armed, it sends a ground to the relay thus opening the circuit, thus cutting your ignition. all i have to do as a car jacker is simply pull one of the ignition plugs out of the relay and plug it into the relay pin in the middle, which would close my circuit. disable time=5sec.

reason 3- 99% of the shops that do install alarms put the alarm brain in almost the exact same place. within 12 inches of the steering column. Every car jacker knows this also. Once they find the alarm brain, they disconnect it, fix the ignition kill from reason 2(5 secs) and its like you car never had an alarm.

reason 4- there is alot of hype in the alarm industry, all this jazz about alarm remote signal re-encoding, digital this, digital that, fancy little remotes, let me be the first to tell you that it is a bunch of bulls**t!!! Almost ALL of them 99%(theres that percentage again) do the same thing except diffrent packaging.
sort of like strut tie bars, all do the same thing, but some are made better, but dont really fucntion better.

reason 5-your probably thinking why the hell, do they charge $100 for a viper alarm when the $100 alarms are so easily disabled? The alarms barely cost the dealers $30 per unit. YOU ARE PAYING FOR LABOR NOT AUTO-SECURITY!!!! reason is the alarms are ussually nothing more than a buncha minature relays packed nicely in a black box. Also if they every try to bust something like"yea you have a complicated car and there are a bunhc of special wires" tell them to suckit cuz to hooki up a viper alarm takes about 30 min because there are only 7 wires to connect.

dont believe me? if you fear you have one of these alarms check for your self;. find the brain, and actually count howmany wires are connected to your car.
you should find this:

red- power
black - ground
yellow - ignition
green/blue - doorlocks
white - parking lights
orange - ground for ignition kill
brown - siren
green - door trigger

anycolor - shock sensor

that is your basic alarm. now look at those wires. how many are actually a type of wire for securing your car? 2.
your door trigger, and the schock sensor. thats it. everyother wire is for power , or to open your door., or to flash your parking lights. This is your basic viper 300-800. if you have remote start then you have four extra relays, but no added security.

sorta scary isn't it?
i dont mean to scare you guys, but as a 5thgen fellow prelude owner i feel that i should share the truth with you.

so now you ask? what makes clifford diffrent?

first of all, the clifford siren for the higher models is self powered. that means the alarm does not send power to the siren to make it make noise, it ssends a digital signal thus removing the ability to shut the siren up. ALso the siren is in continual communication with the alarm brain, so if the communication is cut it knows something is wrong and then makes noise.

second, the ignition kill is built into the alarm brain itself and not simply a external relay attached to the cars ignition. This there fore does not allow for the car jacker to simply rewire the ignition.

third, the lead wires supplied with the cliford alarms are unbelevably looooong. This is so the alarm brain can be mounted extremely far from the steering column. Mine is in my rear left 1/4 panel. this makes it nearly impossible for the car jacker to find and disalbe.

fourth, most alarms have only 2 wires to detect intrusion, the lowest model of clifford has 5, and the highest model with a staggering 23. more trggers meaning harder to steal, tamper.

fifth, you have the option of adding a wireless imoblizer. simply put it is a remote fuel control that has no wires connected to your brain. your alarm communicates with the fuel cutoff via radio. So the switch is untraceable. once armed the alarm sends a radio signal to cut the fuel unless the alarm tells it to reconnect. so even if the car jacker finds the brain, kills the siren, and hot wires the ignition, unless you disarm it with your remote, he gets no fuel and you car stays where you left it.

lasytly, any dealer that is certified to carry clifford and legally distribute and install the alarm system is aware of all the points i have just mentioned. so if you but the clffiord alarm you can rest assured that it was installed(unless this shop is not reputable) corectly and in the best fashion possible to prevent auto losss.

conclusion?

buy the clifford, spend the extra $300-400, or dont spend $100 and save it until you can buy the clifford.

keep your car.

peace.

andrew
 

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Hmmm... at this very moment, I'm getting my Rattler Model 3000 alarm being installed.... Now that I've read your thread, I feel a little bit unsecure now. I had faith that this new alarm was gonna be the ****, but now I'm back to fear.
 

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Yup, I listened to your advice. I told them to hide the siren and brain well.

I didn't mention the hood pin yet.... I'm gonna return in about 1 hour or so and maybe ask them about it. Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
sorry, if i scared you hero

the entire purpose of me posting this was simply to get you guys be aware of a proper alarm install so that if you take a look under your steerig console you would be able to tell if they did it right or not.

just in case, once you get your car back, take a look and see if those visual no no's are there. check if you can easily see a wire coming in from the firewall, and check that the alarm brain is compeletly out of view, or someplace difficult to reach.

peace.
 

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Re: Buying Alarm??? Read This First!!trust Me !!!!

NoRdiC 200shot said:
My car curently has the avant guard in it and once i arm it, i couldn't steal my own car without disarming it. DO NOT GO CHEAP ON YOUR ALARM THERE IS A REASON WHY ONE COSTS $400 compared to $99
NoRdiC 200shot said:
The Avantguard IV is an outstanding alarm but it comes at a hefty premium. Not many people can justify spending $1k+ installed on an alarm.

reason 1- ...when someone is trying to jack your car, he simply reaches under and cuts the only wire that is comeing through your firewall. the whole preocedure takes 10 seconds. BAM..your alarm has been disabled.

First off, I don't know anyone that can "reach under" a Prelude and find a siren wire. A more pressing threat is popping the hood and cutting the battery wire (battery backup solves that.) What is true is that a siren is usually placed high on the firewall and is thus very easy to disable. All you really need to do is have the siren well hiden, I recommend behind the fender. As long as you tape the wires, and run them discretely, a thief will have one hell of a time finding them.

reason 2- the ignition kills provided in 99% of alarms are a joke...all i have to do as a car jacker is simply pull one of the ignition plugs out of the relay and plug it into the relay pin in the middle, which would close my circuit. disable time=5sec.

All you have to do is locate the brain and cut the wires, viola car can be hot wired. As you correctly point out the brain is usually right up under the dash. Since most starter kills are the normally-closed type the car can be started once the alarm brain is out-of-service. The fix here is to hide the relay well and blend the wires into the steering column bundle. I do think this is one area Clifford is superior, they use normally open relays to avoid such a threat.

reason 3- 99% of the shops that do install alarms put the alarm brain in almost the exact same place. within 12 inches of the steering column.

This is very true, one of the first things it says in DEI install manuals is not to place the brain there. The fix here is of course to locate the brain elsewhere and hide the wiring well. The problem is people shop by price only and to be competitive shops have to skimp on the install.

reason 4- there is alot of hype in the alarm industry...Almost ALL of them 99%(theres that percentage again) do the same thing except diffrent packaging.

This is very true, DEI has the exact same alarm, with slightly different looking remotes, under several different brand names (Python, Viper, Avital etc.) I would stick with a name brand like DEI or Clifford, build quality is important.

reason 5-...reason is the alarms are ussually nothing more than a buncha minature relays packed nicely in a black box.

True and installation is so critical, people just don't realize that. Any $100 installed alarm is nothing more than a remote lock popper.

that is your basic alarm. now look at those wires. how many are actually a type of wire for securing your car? 2.

I don't see how the number of wires is releveant (that's a red herring.) What is relevant is how well the car is protected. Any point of entry (doors, trunk, hood) should trigger the alarm. Extras like a glass break sensor are nice and a battery backup is very helpful. And most important of all is a good installation, the reason cars are so easy to steal is because 95% of alarms are poorly installed. Yes, convenience has a lot to do with the popularity of alarm systems but what's wrong with that?

first of all, the clifford siren for the higher models is self powered.

A well installed siren and a battery backup are just as good IMO. Or add a battery backup siren, it sounds when the power is cut.

second, the ignition kill is built into the alarm brain itself and not simply a external relay attached to the cars ignition. This there fore does not allow for the car jacker to simply rewire the ignition.

I don't think theifs rewiring a relay is a real threat. The NO nature of Clifford ignition kills is a big plus though. As I said before, good installation of a standard ignition kill realy gets around the threat IMO.

third, the lead wires supplied with the cliford alarms are unbelevably looooong. This is so the alarm brain can be mounted extremely far from the steering column.

This is nice but as long as the brain isn't up under the dash the thiefs are going to have a tough time finding it.

fourth, most alarms have only 2 wires to detect intrusion, the lowest model of clifford has 5, and the highest model with a staggering 23.

With negative triggers all you need to do is diode isolate them and you can have as many as you want. True, you don't get as many zones reporting but they do trigger the alarm.

fifth, you have the option of adding a wireless imoblizer.

This is a very nice piece indeed, clearly an area where Clifford is superior. It does add a lot to cost and IMO there is a point of diminishing returns for making a car harder to steal. All they have to do is tow it and your $1k Clifford AG4 has meet its match.

conclusion?

buy the clifford, spend the extra $300-400, or dont spend $100 and save it until you can buy the clifford.


Clifford G4 products are nice but expensive. I think a decent brand that is well installed offers all the protection you need. Consumers need to educate themselves before buying and learn to place much more emphasis on the install.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
im glad you cleared up a bunch of things. I guess i am moving a bit fast(can you blame me? alot to say about alarms) but yeah, i agree with everything you had to say concerning my own statements.
 

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ive had a clifford arrow3 on my car for about 1.5yrs now. i never have a problem with it going off for false alarms. i can shake my car back and forth (what little i can with stiffer springs) and it wont go off but one night at work when i had to unload our shipment, someone tried prying my passenger side window back with a screwdriver to get in and it went off. its a low model alarm, but works for what i need it to at the time being.
 

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Man this scares me, i have a rip off of the viper, the Hornet. It was like $189. And i'm pretty sure the brain is right under my steering wheel. I don't have the money now but when i do i guess i will either get a clifford alrm or move the brain. What do you think about that bar that goes on the pedals? DOes that work?
 

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The bar is good but be realistic, you won't be putting it on every time you get out of the car. Even if you think you will, in 6 monthes you won't. A well installed Hornet is better than a poorly installed Viper.
 

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Okay, I just got my alarm back....

Here is my visuals...

I see the red and yellow wires INSTANTLY when I pop the hood. It's just there, hanging easily to be seen. I don't know... but I think that's bad.

Also, I got the backup battery... but wouldn't it not work if they just cut the wires? Or it rings if it detects that wires were cut and it is self powered.
 

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Yes, that is very bad. All they have to do is cut the red wire and your siren, and maybe alarm brain, stops working. The battery backup is useless in that scenario, it only powers the siren and if the wire is cut then...Some electrical tape can solve this and hide the wires real good. Think like the thief, if the wire is hidden they probably aren't going to find it. This leads me to believe the brain isn't hidden well and in general the install isn't great. For $200 you just can't expect to have a well installed alarm.
 

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im sorry to hear that about the alarm install. You have no idea how pissed i get when im at the shop and some teenager comes in who just spent like 200-300 on a alarm and its installed in that fashion. IMO i really would take the car back and ask them to correct the situation(if you do that, tell them you dad looked at it and he said the wires should be taped, or tubed, and hidden) or ask them to remove the alarm and ask for a refund.
 

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Hmm, I need to be able to test if I have a backup battery... Cause I'm not sure if they forgot it or not to put it in. I heard if they cut the wires, the backup battery will alarm and it cannot be shut off or something.

Hmm, what can I do with these wires myself... maybe hide them or something? But I don't know if it's safe to put the wires in the middle of the engine as it might burn it or something.

I can't find the brain nor the backup battery... lol

But the siren is right in front of me when I open it... it's near the place where you put your hand to open the hood.... except more to the right.
 

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is there any reason why i have to be 2 inches away from my viper 600 in order to activate/deactivate it?

good post btw.
 

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To test the battery backup just pull off the positive or negative battery cable (wear safety goggles.) The alarm can still be disarmed with the remote, when the its armed it will continue to go off with the battery disconnected. The battery backup is about the size of a deck of cards so it's easy to hide. Having the siren right up front is terrible, one good whack and it's dead. I would take it back, you specifically asked them to hide it well and its in the least hidden place it can be. So long as the siren is there taping up the wires is useless, they can kill the siren with a good hit. Get a flashlight and look up under the dash, if its there you should have them correct that. Say you're willing to pay a little extra to have it done right (add a hood pin switch too!)
 

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heh, that siren bit is very true. Once i couldnt disable my alarm, so i popped the hood and yanked off the wire going to the siren. Then i was free to mess around with it to start my car. The smart guys that did the installation under the previous owner put the siren in the front bumper. i could have pulled the wires from under the car if i wanted.


What do u think about having a dummy brain in the car? having more than one siren and a brain w/ long wires and relays that lead no where can cause some confusion.
 

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DEI bought Clifford, the Matrix line is the same as Viper, Python etc. It's exactly the same brains with slightly different remotes, a good alarm if installed well but not the same as the G4 stuff. As far as a dummy brain and siren, I don't see the point if you just hide the real stuff well. If the brain isn't up under the dash and the siren is in the fender they aren't going to get to it.
 
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