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Discussion Starter #1
Spoke to Brian Crower,
several times, and he's said that these cams are in alot of H22A Pwrd Drag Cars such as Mark Brauning, Jeremy Lookofsky (L'Natural), AEM Sponsored Stephen P.
Quality speaks for itself, by whose using it...i'm getting me some..motor build-up will be done soon....

vnt




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1997 Prelude (Non-Sh) Eucalyptus Green "TEAM ALL SPORT RACING"
AEM Intake, 5Zigen Fireball Exhaust w/Gutted Cat, 18 Degree Advanced Timing, DC C/C Header, DC Short-Shifter, Gutted Interior, Sprint Race Springs, Front & Rear Strut Bars. Clear Lenses All Around w/Hiper White Bulbs & Alteeza Tailights.
[email protected]
"BIG BLUE FLAME"
 

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VNT,

Has Crower even released any of those billets to the public yet? I've been waiting for months. If they haven't, did he say when? I got tired of asking him like every three weeks.

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2000 5-speed Prelude
Nighthawk Black Pearl
Momo Alumsport shift knob
Iceman Competition Intake
Mugen cat-back exhaust
Mugen headers
AEM underdrive pulleys
 

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Nevermind vnt, I just visited Crower's site and see that yes indeed the cams are available. Now if I only didn't spend my mod money on a trip to Europe. Oh well.

I'll probably wait and see how people are doing with the Crower stuff before buying anyway.

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2000 5-speed Prelude
Nighthawk Black Pearl
Momo Alumsport shift knob
Iceman Competition Intake
Mugen cat-back exhaust
Mugen headers
AEM underdrive pulleys
 
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http://www.crower.com/honda.shtml

I don't know if they actually have produced them or not yet. If you try to order them, there is a small wait on them.

I don't believe that those numbers for the JDM H22 are the Type S cams.

I might look into these after I talk to Larry, but my headwork was done to suit the Type S cams, so these might not be optimal for me.

Not a bad price for new (not regrinds) billet cams.

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Billy
North Texas Prelude Owners Group
www.ntpog.org
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by vntperformance:
motor build-up will be done soon....

vnt


</font>
HaHah!

Thats what you think.


It never ends.




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Warren

93 Prelude VTEC N/A (lots of mods) [email protected]

00 Honda Accord SE (stock)
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Warren,,,

Your right...it never ends...

vnt




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1997 Prelude (Non-Sh) Eucalyptus Green "TEAM ALL SPORT RACING"
AEM Intake, 5Zigen Fireball Exhaust w/Gutted Cat, 18 Degree Advanced Timing, DC C/C Header, DC Short-Shifter, Gutted Interior, Sprint Race Springs, Front & Rear Strut Bars. Clear Lenses All Around w/Hiper White Bulbs & Alteeza Tailights.
[email protected]
"BIG BLUE FLAME"
 

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Besides ECU tuning (possbile OBDII-OBDI swap required - spec'd to mods), and valvetrain upgrades (springs, retainers), would you anticipate any fuel delivery issues coming up with like the stage 2 cams? Would you need bigger injectors, upgraded fuel pump, etc.? I assume that tuning the ECU would require remapping the fuel. What about ignition upgrades? New coil, new ignition control? So many questions to ask and parts to buy, but so little money.

I guess what I'm asking is if someone like say you guys, 71dsp or VeeTec, were to go about getting the Crower cams, what would be your basic blueprint. while I know I'll get answers like "It depends on what you're looking for outta your car" and "Evey car is different" I'm just looking for some basic info to research. Thanks to anyone who answers.



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2000 5-speed Prelude
Nighthawk Black Pearl
Momo Alumsport shift knob
Iceman Competition Intake
Mugen cat-back exhaust
Mugen headers
AEM underdrive pulleys
 
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by chim15:
Besides ECU tuning (possbile OBDII-OBDI swap required - spec'd to mods), and valvetrain upgrades (springs, retainers), would you anticipate any fuel delivery issues coming up with like the stage 2 cams? Would you need bigger injectors, upgraded fuel pump, etc.? I assume that tuning the ECU would require remapping the fuel. What about ignition upgrades? New coil, new ignition control? So many questions to ask and parts to buy, but so little money.

I guess what I'm asking is if someone like say you guys, 71dsp or VeeTec, were to go about getting the Crower cams, what would be your basic blueprint. while I know I'll get answers like "It depends on what you're looking for outta your car" and "Evey car is different" I'm just looking for some basic info to research. Thanks to anyone who answers.
</font>
So, first you pick the cams. You will need to get valve springs and retainers that are compatible with the cams. If you are doing cams alone, I don't think any fuel upgrades would be necessary. I also wouldn't worry about ignition upgrades. Cams alone aren't going to give you 30 hp, it just doesn't happen.

Now, if you do intake, header, exhaust, cams, etc. then you might want to look at your AF ratio and perhaps richen things up a bit with a VAFC or other fuel computer. An ignition might not be necessary, but it won't hurt. Something like an MSD 6AL is a good choice (I am looking into the 6HVC, but it's expensive!). Also, running on the edge of detonation isn't a good idea, so a J&S Safeguard is a good idea. The J&S won't buy you any performance, but it will save your engine if you run into trouble.

Now, to install the springs and retainers, I would remove the head. You can do it with the head on the car, but it's a bit more involved. If the head is off, you might as well get it ported! So, now you really need some type of fuel modification, but nothing past a fuel computer. Again, a J&S is a good idea.

I haven't mentioned ECU tuning because right now that's not possible on 97+ ECUs. I am doing an OBD1 swap though, and for those of you with Base 5Gens, this is an option. I had the ECU reprogrammed by Japanese Automotive in Canada.

The way to look at it is, the more power you're making, the more you will need additional fuel mods, ignition mods, etc.

Now, let me get up on my soap box and say something. Engine building is all about combinations. Just because Crower cams with xxxx grind make 20 hp on "Joe's" car doesn't mean that it will make 20 hp on yours. It might only make 5 hp. It depends on your setup. So if you have the head ported, it needs to be ported with the cams in mind. Same goes for the header, intake, exhaust, etc. So, don't go by dyno numbers alone unless your setup is similar (which goes out the window if you have any headwork done).

I could tell you my blueprint for my car, but that's a secret!
not really, if you want to know, just ask!


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Billy
North Texas Prelude Owners Group
www.ntpog.org
 

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chim15,

I haven't gone as far as too replace the ecu, but that would be a good idea with a serious build. It would be beneficial to remap the fuel and the ignition. I looked into it, and was quoted prices starting off at $1K.

I wouldn't think that injectors would be necessary unless you were running serious compression. I am still using the stock injectors and fuel pump and have had no problems. If you go forced induction or run over 12.1 compression then I would think that larger injectors would be a necessary mod.

As for the ignition, I still need to upgrade mine. In addition to running colder plugs to ward off detonation, a good ignition would help the spark to jump the gap easier. The higher the compression the harder this becomes. Same with the added fuel and air, you need a more powerful stroke to ignite it properly, more complete burn. I have been looking into an ignition, but haven't decided on one yet.

I am supposed to be seeling my car...lol...but as you see, while I have it I am still trying to make it better.
 

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Billy, we don't have the time or space for your dissertation on what you're doing : )

Has ANYONE approached Crower with the Type S cam problem? I find it hard to believe Billy's initial problem were the stiffer webcam springs + Type S profile, though I also find it hard to believe that Crower would release this in their New Products section if they hadn't worked out all the bugs. I also think that this would have been a pretty big bug that they would have found.

I'd be little more concerned about that than engine management or if it's available.
 
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by VeeTec:
I wouldn't think that injectors would be necessary unless you were running serious compression. I am still using the stock injectors and fuel pump and have had no problems. If you go forced induction or run over 12.1 compression then I would think that larger injectors would be a necessary mod.
</font>
Injector sizing should be done on power output. Check out the injector sizing formulas on RCE's webpage. I am going to be using 370 cc/min injectors, but I won't need an upgraded fuel pump.

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Billy
North Texas Prelude Owners Group
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Springs and retainers should be a given with any cam upgrade.
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by 71dsp:
Injector sizing should be done on power output. Check out the injector sizing formulas on RCE's webpage. I am going to be using 370 cc/min injectors, but I won't need an upgraded fuel pump.

</font>

What kind of h.p. are you putting down to need them?
 
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by marcucci:
Billy, we don't have the time or space for your dissertation on what you're doing : )

Has ANYONE approached Crower with the Type S cam problem? I find it hard to believe Billy's initial problem were the stiffer webcam springs + Type S profile, though I also find it hard to believe that Crower would release this in their New Products section if they hadn't worked out all the bugs. I also think that this would have been a pretty big bug that they would have found.

I'd be little more concerned about that than engine management or if it's available.
</font>
From what I have read, the Crower cams have less lift than the Type S cams (I need to dig up my source). Also, we think the main problem with the Type S cams was the profile. The profile can be radicially different on two different cams that have the same duration and lift. Larry reprofiled my cams, but he was able to keep the same duration and lift.

I am really interested in how these Crower cams work out, but I am skeptical about the claimed gains until I see some real world dyno plots.

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Billy
North Texas Prelude Owners Group
www.ntpog.org
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by marcucci:


Has ANYONE approached Crower with the Type S cam problem?
</font>
I sent an e-mail to Crower a bit back and Brian Crower wrote this back, not too helpful:

We've addressed issues concerning the US market.

Cams will be available by the end of March. Cost is in the $680 pair range.
--
Thanks for your interest in Crower,

Crower Cams & Equipment Co., Inc.
3333 Main Street
Chula Vista, CA 91911-5899 USA
Phone: 619-422-1191
Fax: 619-422-9067
http://www.crower.com

[email protected] wrote:

> I've been hearing some about cams for Prelude H22A engines due to come out
> from Crower, is this so? Any expected release date?
>
> Also, two people I know had trouble after putting in JDM Type S cams (with
> Webcam springs and retainers) because the cams caused serious scoring on
> the rockers, they thought the USDM head and rockers might not be exactly
> the same as the JDM's and the geometry didn't line up. How have you guys
> addressed possible problems in this area? This is concerning streetable
> cams, not all out race cams.
>
> Thanks for your time, and I'm looking forward to hearing more about these
> cams.
>
> Brandon
 

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71dsp and VeeTec, thanks for the replies.

And point well taken, 71dsp. That's really the beauty of building up one's car. While the HP, torque and 1/4 milee numbers remain fixed in conrete, absolute numbers, the paths to get there are numerous, with specific concerns and problems applicable on an individual car basis. Like I said though, I'm simply picking some brains to get a possible idea of what can be involved, and what I need to look into.



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2000 5-speed Prelude
Nighthawk Black Pearl
Momo Alumsport shift knob
Iceman Competition Intake
Mugen cat-back exhaust
Mugen headers
AEM underdrive pulleys
 

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Premium Member
Joined
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4,863 Posts
I think it comes down to how much money you have to work with.

If money was no object I would address EVERY issue.

But since it is, I have to address those I think are most important, or will give me the most gain with the set up I have.

I never would have imagined that I would have spent $14K modifying my Prelude, on the other hand if money was no object it would have gone twice as high, or worse.



[This message has been edited by VeeTec (edited March 28, 2001).]
 
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