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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
This is a write up for 4th gen legend caliper, and brembo rotor upgrade.

First off I'd like to say thanks to ryan(cantdrive55) for showing me how to post the pics.



Tools needed: lug wrench
Metric set of 3/8 drive sockets
3/8 drive ratchet and breaker bar
manual impact driver with #3 phillips bit
hammer(preferably a small 2 pound sledge)
one 10 millimeter end wrench
jack
jack stands

1) First, start by taking your lug wrench and break loose all your front wheel lugs, JUST A LITTLE. This will make it easier to take off your wheels in the air so you don't have to have someone step on the brakes when the wheels are off the ground ,also if you don't have the use of a shop,and all it's supplies, such as air tools.

2) Raise the vehicle



3) Remove the lug nuts and the wheels exposing the brake system.


4) Get a bucket and put underneath the caliper, and remove the banjo bolt (the bolt that holds your brake line to the caliper,not shown,sorry) make sure not to loose the two washers that are on the banjo bolt. there are two per bolt.and just let the line drain into the bucket.

5)Remove the two caliper bolts shown, one on the top and bottom.

now be careful once you take the second bolt out, sometimes the caliper will fall, so have a hand on it.remove the caliper set it aside for later refrence,try not to disturb the pads inside.

6)Now there are two phillips screws holding your rotors on, take the manual impact driver(you can try to remove them with a regular screwdriver, but it is unlikely you will succeed without stripping the head on the screw, better safe than sorry)

while pushing and holding it firmly in place, take your hammer and at the same time turning counter clock wise hit the end of the impact driver, now it may take a few times but it should brake the screw loose.
Repeat those steps on both screws,both sides.

7)Now if your car was like mine and your rotors have not been replaced in years, they may have rust build up around the seam where they seperate. So, if you look closely you will see opposite sides of the screws you just took out, two threaded holes,

these holes are for you to put metric bolts(do not know the size call your local honda dealer) in and tighten them slowly and evenly, VERY IMPORTANT TO TIGHTEN SLOW AND EVENLY. Little by little you will hear cracking sounds, not to be alarmed, it is just the sound of the rotor breaking loose. The rotor will start to seperate when it does take it off and remove the bolts, repeat for the other side.

8)The rest is very easy, take your new fancy rotor and slide it on,make sure to re install the two phillips you took out.

9)Now take your legend caliper and take a look at it, you want the right legend caliper on the left side. This is because it is easier to bleed the brakes when you are done with the bleeder valve on the top of the caliper.

11)Now that you have determined what side goes where, take you new brake pads, your new caliper over to where you set your old calipers, (if you are not using new calipers you might have to compress the pistons into the caliper,do this with a type of c clamp vise grip)and install the pads according to your old calipers. Make sure you use all the shims(thin pieces of metal that comes in the box with new pads) and really pay attention to where the shims go, some of the shims are for the pad with the low brake pad warning(this is the pad with little metal bracket on it that when your pads get low,the metal will scrape against your rotor letting you know it's time to change brake pads) the shims for this pad have a notch cut out so the warning bracket will clear.

12)When you have your pads in, carefully put the caliper back on,and fasten the caliper bolts TIGHTLY.

This is what they should look like after. Same for both sides. Now fasten your brake lines back onto the calipers, againg beging careful not to lose the two washer that are on your banjo bolts. Remember one goes on the bolt, then push the bolt through the brake line, then the second washer goes on, fasten the bolt.

13)Now remove your brake fluid cap, and make sure there is plenty of fluid, put back on the cap, and now you will need a partner for the next step.

Note: There are many was to bleed brakes,everyone has a there own way, this is the way I do it, if you have your own system feel free.

14)Have your partner sit in the car, windows down,stereo off so he can hear you.(very important) Now his job is to slowly pump the brakes until he feels a little resistance, have him tell you when he does. Now check your brake fluid again, and top it off it will be low.(very important to have fluid in the master cylinder during this process or else you will bleed more air into the lines) once you have topped off your master cylinder, have your partner press the peddle three times, and on the third time hold to the floor.Tell him to not release until you say. again all these steps are important, you both must understand each other or else you will get air into your brake lines. while he is holding the pedal to the floor take your ten wrench and slowly loosen the bleeder valve. You will either hear air, or inconsistant fluid flow,when it stops tighten the valve and tell your partner to repeat his process, three easy pumps on the third hold to the floor until you open the valve when the fluid stops,tighten the valve and say "pump" and it makes it easier for you if when he has the pedal down to say "down" so you know when to loosen the bleeder. You must do this until you only see consistant fluid flow out of the bleeder valve, when you do repeat the process on the other side. making sure to check your fluid level often. When they are both bled,top off your fluid one more time and check the pedal feel. If it feels good, you are all done.

15) once you have re checked all your bolts, fittings,and fluid levels, put your wheels back on and put the car down, then in your drive way check your brakes and pedal feel, just go forward and backward in your drive way to make sure you have brakes so you don't just go on the street and get into trouble.

ONE LAST THING, IT NEVER HURTS TO CHECK AND RE-CHECK YOUR WORK. SOMETIMES YOU MIGHT FIND SOMETHING LOOSE. IT'S ALWAYS A GOOD PRACTICE.

If everything checks out, you are good to go. Enjoy your new stopping power. I have very much enjoyed mine.

Thanks for reading
Matt (SLP MODE)
 

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Hey,

That is a great write-up. :bigthumb:

I do have one concern though. The calipers are two piston types with one piston being smaller than the other right? If you reverse the sides of the calipers won't you wear the pads unevenly. The bigger piston (or is it the smaller piston :confused: ) is supposed to be the one on the leading edge of the rotor. I read this on another thread somewhere, just curious/concerned.

Since the only reason for swapping sides on the calipers is to make bleeding easier/possible. This is due to the fact that the bleeder bolt would be on the bottom if installed on the proper sde right? Would it be possible to bleed the brakes before mounting them and just holding them on the back of the rotor. This would put the bleeder bolt on the top and make bleeding possible, right? Then after the brakes are bled mount them to the proper side of the rotor and you are good to go.

Can anyone confirm/deny this possiblility.

Thanks,
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
I looked at the pistons and they are the same size, unless I am blind ha ha . and yes that is the only reason to switch sides is to make it easier to bleed. You wouldn't need to hold the calipers while bleeding because really the pistons are the same size.

Correction, the pistons are different sizes.
 

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hey matt what size rotor are those?
 

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Looks like some goon info.

What would you say is a good price on the Legend calipers?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
MidNKight-lude said:
hey matt what size rotor are those?
They are the vtec size rotors, you wouldn't use the si rotors with the legend calipers.

Also I paid 95 dollars each, for the legend calipers brand new(rebuilt) from acura. I was able to get them at list through my shop. You will have to return your calipers to them for cores.
 

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think you missed a step there.

10. if you're upgrading to legend calipers, you need to get an old vtec size brake pad and use it as a shim. this is because the vtec rotor is narrower than the legend rotor by about 5mm. if you grind off all of the brake material on the old pad, down to the bare metal, it will be just about the right size. then you place the shim on the outside of the caliper under the outer brake pad.

also, the pistons are different sizes. from what i remember when i rebuilt mine, i think one was 42mm and the other was 38mm.

you also might want to add to your writeup, that the lugnuts should be torqued down to 80 ft/lbs with a torque wrench when you're done, so the rotors won't warp.

just some suggestions...
 

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Zimmlude said:

Since the only reason for swapping sides on the calipers is to make bleeding easier/possible. This is due to the fact that the bleeder bolt would be on the bottom if installed on the proper sde right? Would it be possible to bleed the brakes before mounting them and just holding them on the back of the rotor. This would put the bleeder bolt on the top and make bleeding possible, right? Then after the brakes are bled mount them to the proper side of the rotor and you are good to go.

Can anyone confirm/deny this possiblility.

Thanks,
stupid me installed the calipers with the bleed bolt on the bottom. to bleed them, i just removed the lower bolt that holds the caliper onto the bracket and swung it upwards so the bleeder valve was on top. Then my dad wedged in a piece of wood under the pistons (so they wouldn't extend) and held the caliper as I pumped the pedal and he opened and close the bleeder valve.

a bit of a pain in the ass, but no problems whatsoever.

also, i've read that the brake lines tend to fall into a better position (less sharp bends) if you keep the right caliper on the right side and the left one on the left. not really sure on this
 

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Discussion Starter #9
go pre said:
think you missed a step there.

10. if you're upgrading to legend calipers, you need to get an old vtec size brake pad and use it as a shim. this is because the vtec rotor is narrower than the legend rotor by about 5mm. if you grind off all of the brake material on the old pad, down to the bare metal, it will be just about the right size. then you place the shim on the outside of the caliper under the outer brake pad.

also, the pistons are different sizes. from what i remember when i rebuilt mine, i think one was 42mm and the other was 38mm.

you also might want to add to your writeup, that the lugnuts should be torqued down to 80 ft/lbs with a torque wrench when you're done, so the rotors won't warp.

just some suggestions...
Thanks for the suggestions, but I did not have an old vtec size brake pad, I thought of that and noticed that there was a tiny bit of play in the calipers, I get a little bit of brake chatter, but it will not hurt anything and it doesn't bother me, but yes you could make a extra shim, I just doubled the thin ones up.
Also on the piston size, I looked at the pistons and they did seem the same size, and if it is only 4 mm difference that is kinda hard to eyeball. But no I did not measure them.
Thanks again for all the suggestions, this was my first write up.
I know it definately could of been alot more technical. But maybe it will be enough to answer someones questions.
 

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i wasn't trying to criticize.. but I know for a fact that the pistons are different sizes, they had the size etched on each piston when i rebuilt them. maybe you got a newer/different caliper that has same size pistons, who knows. I think the 5mm shim is important though. 2 of the thin shims is nowhere near the thickness that you need to compensate for.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Yeah I was saying, that you are right about the different piston sizes, I was just stating that I didn't measure them and a four mill. difference is kinda hard to eyeball.

and as far as the shim goes, the pistons have no problem extending out a few extra mills either. It's personal preference.

Yes you can stick a big shim in there, I didn't do it, and they work great, just personal preference.

by the way I have no problems taking suggestions, I am not defensive, I consider this to be a discussion, not a arguement.
thanks matt
 

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It appears in that picture that your rotors are spinning in the wrong direction as well. The slots and holes should be curving the other way unless these rotors are designed to spin backwards. Also, just for your reference you should never reuse the copper crush washers from the brakeline banjo bolt, they should ALWAYS be replaced. They are desgined to crush when torqued (26 ftlbs if I remember right). That could be an area of potential leakage.
 

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the thing about the shims...

i would be concerned when the brake pads start to wear down and the pistons start becoming more and more extended. the boot would be stretched quite a bit and maybe tear or pop off the piston
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Dr. James said:
It appears in that picture that your rotors are spinning in the wrong direction as well. The slots and holes should be curving the other way unless these rotors are designed to spin backwards. Also, just for your reference you should never reuse the copper crush washers from the brakeline banjo bolt, they should ALWAYS be replaced. They are desgined to crush when torqued (26 ftlbs if I remember right). That could be an area of potential leakage.
Well I don't know about that, one of my best friends is a race engineer, specializing in brakes and suspension, and he says the slots are always to to be curving foward, also I just replaced some other rotors, and the information that came with those rotors also said that the slots are to be running forward. I could even try to scan that info and post it, also the banjo washers I did use the new ones that came with my rotors. But if someone doesn't have the new washers, they can use the old ones in the mean time, I have done it many times before and have never had a problem.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
G_Loc said:
the thing about the shims...

i would be concerned when the brake pads start to wear down and the pistons start becoming more and more extended. the boot would be stretched quite a bit and maybe tear or pop off the piston
We are only talking a few millimeters here, that is not enough to stress the calipers.
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
I just talked to brembo, the only way that rotors are directional, is the viens inbetween the mating surfaces, if they have a curve then yes the rotors should be facing backwards, if not then they are non directional rotors. I don't think brembo would be wrong guys. but feel free to call them yourselves don't believe me. brembo.com.http://www.baer.com/Showcase/TechTips.aspx?TechTipID=2
http://hp.brembo.com/edit/faq/index.asp?ECSShopperID=Q40FVDGQ25E69M0EGSK2XSH0VDV64VB0&LngCode=ENG&sCurrency=USD&PrCatID=3#31
 

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slp mode said:
I just talked to brembo, the only way that rotors are directional, is the viens inbetween the mating surfaces, if they have a curve then yes the rotors should be facing backwards, if not then they are non directional rotors. I don't think brembo would be wrong guys. but feel free to call them yourselves don't believe me. brembo.com.

o ok Matt, np, just wondering what was going on, I thought I did it wrong at first lol. :bigthumb:
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
No problem, I know there are alot of different opions on this subject, but I do have a document in my hand right now that i am going to try to scan this weekend, that shows slots going foward.


Update, as of now, it has been almost a year, and I have checked my pads, and there is no uneven wear patterns on the pads from switching left side to right side and so on.

I did get brake chatter, but used a shim as suggested and that is now gone, so a shim is a must.
 
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