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Old 09-16-2004, 03:47 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Lug Nuts and Hubcentric Rings - Some general info I learned from my hunt for wheels

First:
Proper lug nuts are important and when you buy aftermarket wheels you probably need new ones. Stock lug nuts have a ball type seating, which is very rounded. Most aftermarket wheels have holes that are not suited for ball seatings, and instead, require cone seatings, which have a steeper angle to them. This allows them to be tightened farther onto the stud so they will have more contact with the wheel and actually contact the hub like they are supposed to. If stock lugs are used they likely don't have much contact with the wheel or hub and as a result can work loose. I originally put stock nuts on my new wheels and was shocked at how easy it was to break torque on them later on, much easier than with my stock wheels. It was rather scary as I only gave a slight push to each and they gave way.

Now maybe this is common knowledge but I certainly didn't know about it until I thought about getting new lug nuts for fun and read a thread about this issue. After my personal experience I am convinced this is true. Fortunately most aftermarket lug nuts have cone seatings so go get some if you don't have any, especially if you race!

Second:
Hubcentric rings. I have seen several threads in here about them and just want to re-recommend them. From everything I've read Honda wheels are hubcentric and not lugcentric so if you want your wheels to be perfectly balanced you should buy rings for your aftermarket wheels unless their bore size is equal to the Preludes (64.1mm) and most aren't. It's doubtful that your lug bolts would shear off but it may cause vibration at high speeds.

There are many different sizes of rings so make sure you contact the wheel manufacturer for their bore size. For example, there are even differences as small as 72.6mm and 73mm rings, although I'm not sure .4mm makes any performance difference. Maybe we could start a little listing of known sizes. For example, I found out that Rota has several different bore sizes. The two that are applicable to us would be 67.1mm and 73mm.

I know many people already know this stuff but for people new to wheels, I hope this provides a little insight.
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Old 09-16-2004, 04:25 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Old 09-17-2004, 11:13 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Hey, nice write up! These issues often ignored, and these types of questions are frequently asked.

Stickyworthy!

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Old 10-15-2004, 07:26 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I just wanted to add something to this thread, since like Yeild, I did not realize it right away. The cone type lugs that came with my aftermarket wheels are totally incompatable with the stock rims and the spacesaver spare. If I ever got a flat and had to put the spare on I would be screwed b/c the lugs I have on the car won't work with it. So I started carrying 5 OE lugnuts in the car with me for just such an occasion.

Don't know how many of you do this, but if you don't, you should start.
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Old 10-22-2004, 12:37 AM   #5 (permalink)
 
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holy loose lugnut Batman, I didn't know that. I have Cone's on my stock rims.
I wondered why they came loose at first.
What should I do? I only have 4 of the stock nuts left? Should it be ok? or ... ekk
I think I may know the answer.
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Old 11-24-2004, 07:30 PM   #6 (permalink)
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recently i put on my stock rims for a long time and put cone type seated lug nuts on it and it worked fine. i forgot that the oem wheels needed different lug nuts. it wasnt easy to remove or anything. did i harm/damage the lug nuts and should purchase a new pair maybe since it was used on a application that it shouldnt have been used on or is it ok? i put on my aftermarket rims now so the lug nuts are seating properly now.

and ive looked around and i think i understand what these hub centric rings do/are exactly now. only question left is, what size and what brand or type of material hub ring should i get? thanx.

Last edited by MidNiteMysT; 11-24-2004 at 09:30 PM.
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Old 11-26-2004, 01:36 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I think your lugnuts should be fine. As for rings, I only see stock rims in your sig, which don't need any rings. Only generic aftermarket wheels do. Stock ID is listed in the original post and the OD is determined by the aftermarket wheel diameter.
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Old 11-26-2004, 01:44 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I just put some 18" rota subzeros on my 5th gen, Im assuming I need hub centric rings....would I have to get these rings from rota or from anywhere that sells wheels?
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Old 11-26-2004, 01:44 PM   #9 (permalink)
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o, my sig is outdated, i dont have the stock rims on my car anymore, thats why i would need those rings. as stated in my above post, "i put on my aftermarket rims now so the lug nuts are seating properly now."

so now i just need to know what size and what brand or type of material hub ring should i get? thanx.

so our hubs are 64.1mm? thats the inner diameter, now i have to get the other diameter. what exactly do i ask my rim company? whats the bore size of their rims?
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Old 11-26-2004, 01:46 PM   #10 (permalink)
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would something like this do the trick?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...spagename=WDVW
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Old 11-26-2004, 02:10 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Theaneet - yes those are what you would need.

Midnite - Yup just ask them for that, or call up a few local wheel or performance shops and they'd probably be ok with you dropping by with your rims and testing a few sizes out for you. 73.1mm is very common but yours could be different. Metal probably holds up better than plastic. I tried plastic and they survived a track day ok but they definitely break as evidenced by me breaking one in half after it seized onto my hub. I'll be inspecting mine every year.
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Old 11-29-2004, 02:19 PM   #12 (permalink)
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hmm... the local shop only offers plastic. they want $20 for the set. should i buy it or hold off and buy metal ones instead from the internet or something? i dont see why they would break. it should just center it till the lugs are tightened, then the lugs should hold the rim in place. how did it break? just because you tried removing it after a day of autocross?
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Old 11-29-2004, 04:23 PM   #13 (permalink)
 
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I had plastic ones on my SW20 MR2 for years without any problems.
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Old 11-29-2004, 04:26 PM   #14 (permalink)
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The only problem I've had with plastic ones is a careless/clueless tire tech crushing one when he put the wheel on crooked. Any kind of track usage would easily overheat a set of plastic ones - but there's a composite plastic material that's supposedly a lot better.
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Old 11-29-2004, 05:54 PM   #15 (permalink)
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ill be putting on the rims myself so thats no prob. with the metal ones, i would worry about rust. im not sure which kinda of plastic the one near me offers. i could order some metal ones from somewhere. only thing i would be concerned about with the metal is it has to be exact fit (not allowing any error) and it might rust. the plastic may form a better seal but it might be compressed a tiny bit allowing the wheel to sag and causing the wheel to not be aligned as properly as it could be. what would you guys recommend?
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Old 11-29-2004, 10:45 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MidNiteMysT
ill be putting on the rims myself so thats no prob. with the metal ones, i would worry about rust. im not sure which kinda of plastic the one near me offers. i could order some metal ones from somewhere. only thing i would be concerned about with the metal is it has to be exact fit (not allowing any error) and it might rust. the plastic may form a better seal but it might be compressed a tiny bit allowing the wheel to sag and causing the wheel to not be aligned as properly as it could be. what would you guys recommend?
Well, if they're metal they're usually aluminum, so no rusting there. And they're usually anodized as well, so they won't even corrode.

And don't worry about the plastic sagging or anything like that - once the lugs are torqued down, the compression of the wheel against the rotor is holding the weight of the car, not the hub itself.
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Old 11-30-2004, 07:24 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemione
And don't worry about the plastic sagging or anything like that - once the lugs are torqued down, the compression of the wheel against the rotor is holding the weight of the car, not the hub itself.
yea, i knew that. i meant while its sitting on the hub before you torque it down, it wont be centered exactly. ya know what i mean?

so which one should i pick?
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Old 12-09-2004, 05:30 PM   #18 (permalink)
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any answer?
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Old 12-10-2004, 12:33 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I think what we are trying to say is that it probably won't matter too much. Unless you do a lot of track days or something. I had a plastic one get seized onto my hub after a track day (don't know if it melted or what?) but I consider them a wear item (i.e., I expect them to break,etc. fairly often) so I'm prepared to replace them yearly. If you're worried about it just get the metal ones and call it a day.
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Old 12-10-2004, 03:28 PM   #20 (permalink)
 
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IF any ONE NEEDS HUB CENTRIC RINGS I can get them....... a friend of mines sells them, i atleast i think thats still his business to sell them, just pm me and ill give you all the info and the website to go to.
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