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Old 04-23-2003, 06:09 PM   #1 (permalink)
 
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buh-bye ATTS.

Well, I alluded to my most recent project in another post...here's the result.



There have been rumors of people ridding themselves of ATTS and since mine was nonfunctional with the AEM EMS I wanted to eliminate it and add a "traditional" tranny w/ quaife. The adapter is pretty simple...basically a 1/4" plate drilled to fit both the ATTS pattern and the intermediate shaft. The only complexity is that the top left ear on the support bearing must be cut off and rewelded to line up with the upper bolt. You can check out the other pics here:


http://ian.clendaniel.net/gallery/noatts

--Ian
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Old 04-23-2003, 09:07 PM   #2 (permalink)
 
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so can you use the passenger side SH halfshaft with the base tranny or do you have to get the base halfshaft

bye the way this is awesome someone is actually showing how they did this rather then saying "yeah i lost my atts unit"

i appreciate it i will be looking into this soon
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Old 04-23-2003, 09:18 PM   #3 (permalink)
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so you did this all yourself???? so how much did you spend??? if any??

also what do you think it would cost to get rid of?
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Old 04-23-2003, 10:16 PM   #4 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by ziggity
so can you use the passenger side SH halfshaft with the base tranny or do you have to get the base halfshaft

bye the way this is awesome someone is actually showing how they did this rather then saying "yeah i lost my atts unit"

i appreciate it i will be looking into this soon
Uses the base tranny, base intermediate shaft, and both SH axles.

--Ian
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Old 04-23-2003, 10:26 PM   #5 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by MugenPoweredLude
so you did this all yourself???? so how much did you spend??? if any??

also what do you think it would cost to get rid of?
$0...I had the 1/4" plate sitting around and the nuts came from my spare parts bin. Beyond that you'll need access to a welder, grinder, and drill press.

--Ian
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Old 04-24-2003, 12:22 AM   #6 (permalink)
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damn! you da man!

do you have any pictures from a bit further back so we can see the whole tranny?

did you get a quaife?
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Old 04-24-2003, 08:30 AM   #7 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by schwett
damn! you da man!

do you have any pictures from a bit further back so we can see the whole tranny?

did you get a quaife?
I'll snap a couple this evening from further back...the tranny's still bolted to the spare block on my workbench.

I got a quaife from Earl on H-T...that was the most expensive piece in the whole project! I'll be installing it next, just wanted to make sure that I was going to be able to use the tranny first.

Now if JE would just hurry up with my damn pistons....

--Ian
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Old 04-24-2003, 09:02 AM   #8 (permalink)
 
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do you thik there will be any alignment issues since it is sitting 1/4" off the block

i think you should be able to bring it somewhere to check the alignment of the intermediate shaft or you might have premature bearing wear

i know there are places that check alignments like this but i cant think of what their names would be, but on my dads dredge it has huge 18" shafts that needed to be aligned and some guys came with some lasers and what not and aligned it
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Old 04-24-2003, 09:24 AM   #9 (permalink)
 
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Excellent job. Thanks for the pics. If I had any more time to spend on the Prelude, this would be my next project.
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Old 04-24-2003, 10:07 AM   #10 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by ziggity
do you thik there will be any alignment issues since it is sitting 1/4" off the block

i think you should be able to bring it somewhere to check the alignment of the intermediate shaft or you might have premature bearing wear

i know there are places that check alignments like this but i cant think of what their names would be, but on my dads dredge it has huge 18" shafts that needed to be aligned and some guys came with some lasers and what not and aligned it
Errr...it's not 1/4" further off the block. The mounting bosses for the ATTS are 1/4" further back than where the support bearing sits. In other words without the plate it would be out of alignment as you'd be forcing the carrier to sit closer to the block. IMHO I got lucky with this "extra" space as I was originally thinking that I'd need to mill 1/4" off the back of the carrier to account for the adapter plate. Once I got everything and mocked it up I was pretty happy to find that I had space for the adapter. If you place the shaft in the tranny you can feel the small amount of play...I made the plate so that it sits right in the middle of this "free" area just like on a stock setup. The shaft rotates freely with absolutely no binding.

On a side note I didn't mention...there is one bolt hold missing in the h23 trans for the lower shield/crossmember as the h23 has a sheetmetal dust cover similar to the b-series where the newer h's have the aluminum guard/brace. The piece still bolts up and given the placement of the missing hole I believe the difference in strength to be negligible. If you were to use a non-ATTS vtec tranny from a 4th gen or 5th gen base model this should be a non-issue.

--Ian
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Old 04-24-2003, 10:11 AM   #11 (permalink)
 
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So the base tranny bell housing bolts to the SH block no problem? It's just the intermediate shaft that neds mods?
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Old 04-24-2003, 10:20 AM   #12 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Satan_SRV
So the base tranny bell housing bolts to the SH block no problem? It's just the intermediate shaft that neds mods?
Yup...with the exception of the hole I mentioned in my previous post which I believe is an h23-specific issue.

--Ian
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Old 04-24-2003, 01:45 PM   #13 (permalink)
 
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oh i got ya i wasnt exactly sure since i did not design it myself but thanks for the info and great job btw
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Old 04-24-2003, 02:04 PM   #14 (permalink)
 
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So do you think the h23 tranny would bolt fine to the SH block even with this missing bolt? Could it be tapped?
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Old 04-24-2003, 02:22 PM   #15 (permalink)
 
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Originally posted by Wanna Lude too.
So do you think the h23 tranny would bolt fine to the SH block even with this missing bolt? Could it be tapped?
That's the h23 trans bolted to an SH block in the top picture...the missing bolt is a 6mm (or 8mm, can't remember at the moment) and is not one of the 10mm bolts that fasten the tranny to the block, all bolts going from the block -> tranny are present and are the exact same. The missing one goes through the lower cover into the bottom of the bellhousing; it's not that it needs to be drilled/tapped, there's no boss on the tranny for it to bolt to. I'll try to get a picture of what I'm talking about tonight along with a couple side-by-side comparisons of the h22-SH and h23 trannies.

--Ian
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Old 04-24-2003, 05:46 PM   #16 (permalink)
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why is ATTS non-functional with the AEM EMS? I thought ATTS had its own computer?
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Old 04-24-2003, 07:34 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Originally posted by nuro
why is ATTS non-functional with the AEM EMS? I thought ATTS had its own computer?
it needs a data line from the stock computer that can't be replicated by any standalone on the market.
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Old 04-24-2003, 09:56 PM   #18 (permalink)
 
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there was someone near me that flashed a OBD2 P72 and retained ATTS but still the clutches couldnt hold the extra torque so it was worthless.

Although back to the guy that builds custom gearboxes that hold 7000 ft/lbs of torque he said that he coul crack open my atts unit and replace and adjust any part that looks weak. Which i think is the clutches but without a complete diagnosis from this gearbox specialist he said he would have to pinpoint the problem and could fix it for me. I said there may be some market in it but who knows how much so it would cost a lot for me to do and i dont think ATTS is that great to begin with so clefdaniels idea is much cheaper and a better option IMO, unless this guy could make the ATTS unit function in a straight line, which again would take another electrical engineer to program the ATTS unit to do so, but from the looks of the Helms manual the ATTS is capable of doing some pretty wicked **** if modfied to do something rather than honda intended (hell thats what we do as enthusiasts right)

i have done a ton of reasearch and have a lot of personal resources at my disposal but i just dont think all the money and effort would be worth it considering a h23 trans and a quiafe like clefdaniel did would equate to similar outcome
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Old 04-25-2003, 08:15 AM   #19 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by ziggity
there was someone near me that flashed a OBD2 P72 and retained ATTS but still the clutches couldnt hold the extra torque so it was worthless.

Although back to the guy that builds custom gearboxes that hold 7000 ft/lbs of torque he said that he coul crack open my atts unit and replace and adjust any part that looks weak. Which i think is the clutches but without a complete diagnosis from this gearbox specialist he said he would have to pinpoint the problem and could fix it for me. I said there may be some market in it but who knows how much so it would cost a lot for me to do and i dont think ATTS is that great to begin with so clefdaniels idea is much cheaper and a better option IMO, unless this guy could make the ATTS unit function in a straight line, which again would take another electrical engineer to program the ATTS unit to do so, but from the looks of the Helms manual the ATTS is capable of doing some pretty wicked **** if modfied to do something rather than honda intended (hell thats what we do as enthusiasts right)

i have done a ton of reasearch and have a lot of personal resources at my disposal but i just dont think all the money and effort would be worth it considering a h23 trans and a quiafe like clefdaniel did would equate to similar outcome
Yeah, I also spoke with a couple of the AEM engineers who said that it wouldn't be a problem supporting the ATTS functionality provided that we could source some documentation (or figure it out if necessary) for the signalling between the main ecu and atts ecu. In the end I decided that it would be alot of trouble for a questionable end. IMHO clutch-based LSD's (the ATTS is basically a fancy computer controlled version) are crap on high-hp applications as they tend to wear quickly and/or cannot hold the power. I came from the jeep/offroad world and have had problems with clutch-based units in the past. There's something to be said about a Quaife with it's racing-approved warranty and clutchless design.

--Ian
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Old 04-25-2003, 07:38 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by schwett


it needs a data line from the stock computer that can't be replicated by any standalone on the market.
would this be the same for 4WS?
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