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Old 06-09-2010, 05:38 PM   #1 (permalink)
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99 Lude Motor Seized / swap motor time :(

Newb question as I am not a mechanic and understand's some of the in and out of when it is a good time to do something and perhaps when not.... background:
-99 base auto with only 88k intake and exaust mod's only-

The other day after two weeks of getting the oil changed for the first time in a year and half I really cranked it up on the freeway screwing around with a prosche... I hit 135 (ish) and an RPM peak of about 7500 (done it before at 150 and 8k and some change 2 yrs ago.. no problems). later that night.. the "valves" where making clicking sounds as I was on the way home and was getting worse, I pulled off the freeway and .. lost engine compression, powersterring, and put it in N and costed to the side of the road. I attempted to get a jump, I had lights and fan etc.. and when I went to start, there was one click and all the dash lit up and it wouldn't jump (engine would not crank or make attempt start noise). Upon taking it to the shop, without and in-depth look yet.. the inital deal is motorseizer, that something broke in the bottom.
A little hisorty, I was 27,000 miles overdue for an oil change prior to the one i just had (I had added oil during that time just never changed it) .. and yes I know dumb... but moving on.. finally had the oil change and within two weeks.. first time streaching her wings.. BOOM.. here we are. Timing belt doesn't seem to be the issue... it is uknown if a rod blew. The oil is very black and the mechanic was surprised to hear I just had an oil change, reports very dark and dirty for only two weeks.

1 - What could have happened it only had 88k and had a major service at 58k (when I bought it 2 1/2 years ago).
2 - Could the oil change place have made an error if so what should i look for?
3 - Do you recommended for $3500 (total installed price) do a motor swap with a 50k unit and have them also do all the belts, and water pump (since there where there).. is this a decent price for a shop?
4 - How in danger is the tranny after said incident?
5 - Should I sell it ( if so is the value effected?) and replace it with another one after the repair?

Last edited by Brock707; 06-09-2010 at 06:19 PM.
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Old 06-09-2010, 08:59 PM   #2 (permalink)
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1--Uhh, you waited almost 30k miles for an oil change....what do you mean "what could've happened"?

2--Yes....not really sure what to look for, maybe a receipt?

3--Depends which shop if you are paying to have it done for you. But personally, no, that's a terrible deal, you could have an engine swap AND a trans swap for that much.

4--Those trannys are incredibly unpredictable and unreliable, no clue.

5--Yes you should sell it. And yes the value is very affected, that car is in terrible condition.

The car is not worth saving, it's an auto, they fail and suck because of it.

I'm not sure who'd be stupid enough to buy it from you.....I mean, you not only admitted to completely and totally neglecting it in one of the worst ways, but you openly admit to beating and abusing it--
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I hit 135 (ish) and an RPM peak of about 7500 (done it before at 150 and 8k and some change 2 yrs ago.. no problems)
--Dude, that car is beyond toast. I'm surprised it even drove.



The saddest part is that you are going to have to lie to the next person to buy it. I would bet money, that--no matter what you say here online--you are probably not going to tell a word of this to the people that may inquire on it for sale. So they will not know what terrible care you took with it, and they'll get conned into a lemon.

Even on those notes man, get rid of the car unless you can fix the car yourself, it's not worth the money.
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Old 06-09-2010, 09:16 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Old 06-11-2010, 09:40 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Wow such aggression... so many thing to address first now that I find myself on the defense... I made 1 mistake... part of the reason.. was I was space cadet and it didn't enter my mind between my grandmother's, aunt, and fathers death within about a year period.. then finding out my mom is going to loose her house .. and i should mention I live in north cali and prices tend to much higher here for things... and called 7 shops for a quote on a swap and the place i went with was $200 higher than the lowest, however it was at that shop already after a tow.. so considering I would have had to tow it to a shop (a different one) I don't know.. it wasn't worth the extra expense, and to continue with my train of thought I new i was over due... I just flat out didn't realize it was that over due, not to mention the lack of income (out of work for a while) i just couldn't afford it.. it was hard enough to pay for rent food and gas to continue to get to a job as it is..(drained my savings so getting another car was out of the question) and as i said I know how dumb that was, and didn't need the extra "dig" but thanks anyway, what is done is done. During that time I did add oil as needed and did not drive it hard or "abuse" it further than what i described... I have had it over 100 twice.. once when i got it (after a complete service) and this last time (again after servicing) and i didn't Hammer on it getting up there. I have driven it soft and easy for the most part since I got it. I see most if not all of you are haters on the auto..which is your choice... I prefer it. I have had it 2 and half years and put 28k on it.... it has a clean title, lines are straight, has almost perfect paint, and you could eat off the carpet it's so clean. Since posting I have found out the oil pump or timing belt just went out, and the motor oil was checked again and was determined to be fine. after $3,500 I will have a JDM 50k motor swap done, complete with timing belt, water pump, oil pump, belts, tranny service and a few other small details done. I plan on driving it for a few more years, as i paid cash for it i have no payment so financially it made sense to do the swap. As far as lying to a buyer about selling it, my law enforcement background prevents me from lying... so that isn't gonna happen, and since I had the motor swap done.. the lesson was learned about oil changes they will be done at 5k or 4 months "with honda fluids only" without a doubt, I only drive 5 miles to work and back so chances are the 4 month mark will creep up before the milage. There are only two down sides for a buyer for this car... one the auto.. two the fact i had to do a swap so early, in which the motor can be explained and I have all documents, original books, all three keys, both key fobs, and the MSRP window sticker for the car.. unlike any 12 year car has. What surprises me most is the absolute.. rudeness people have shown on this site, it blows my mind... I have 7 years in the auto business and know exactly how to present the car and understand people want to haggle... and in a northern california market with 88k on the odo and a 50k JDM replacement .. with condition in mind... is between 5 and 6k, with no motor with body in mind the car coulda been sold for $2500-$3000.. but then i would have had to buy something unknown for $2700 and have a pos, at least with THIS car I know the history..overall for less than $11000 total invested I have a 99 with very low milage..very clean... clean title.. and in great mechanical shape (now)... with a tranny replacement in mind prob around 140k, but since i had the bands replaced and fluid in the tranny done as well perhaps 180k time will tell. So me being new and all.. maybe I'm old at 35.... and too tall for a stick (6-3), and just should never return to the haters (it seems) of this site (since it seems only 5spd owners are truley welcomed here) and the "SS"'s aren't.. and enjoy driving for what it is...The car even in SS form was ahead of it's time for 97, and has held up well with the test of time compared to other generations of the decade.. with that.. I think I am done EXPLAINING the details.. though, somehow I know some teen or 20 something will have the "last word" for whatever reason, in any case what is done is done and it's a dead issue, my next car... hummm STi.... TL, or perhaps an 09 or newer 335 sedan in a 5 SPD... with the sport and winter package....one day now that my job is back on track and the economy is turning..

Last edited by Brock707; 06-11-2010 at 09:46 PM.
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Old 06-11-2010, 10:03 PM   #5 (permalink)
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^I'm very glad you can afford such things. I meant no harm even though I used harsh words.

People that neglect their cars are the epitome of people on this forum, so when I meet them, it sort of fires me up! hahaha

Sorry for any harsh words/feelings. And good luck!
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Old 06-11-2010, 10:57 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Everyone has their own problems, but nobody else ever goes 30k between oil changes. There is no excuse for that. None. You say you couldn't afford to change it? How does the cost of some oil and a few filters compare to the cost of the engine swap you need now? I'm willing to bet you neglected all the other maintenance on the car during this time frame as well and many other parts on the car are also on the verge of failure because of it.


As far as the auto transmission, most members here bash them because: A) they are much slower than the 5spd's and B)they are defective and prone to complete failure on a regular basis. Regardless of what you do to it or how you drive it, it will eventually fail. Your idea that yours will last 180k because you changed the transmission fluid is extremely ignorant. Many SS transmissions that have be much better maintained than yours don't make it half that long. You are putting money into a car that is almost certainly going to break anyway, and most everyone would consider that a very poor investment.

All flaming aside, your best course of action at this point is to cut your loses and sell what is left your neglected Prelude and buy another car. If you still insist on driving an automatic (by the way, your claim that you can't drive a 5spd because you're 6'3" is complete crap), getting another Prelude is a bad choice. The cost of reversing the damage caused by a complete lack of maintenance on your current car for so long likely exceeds its value. It will have "money pit" written all over it as the neglected parts fail one at a time.

I hope you have learned from your mistake and take better care of your next car or that you are able to nurse your prelude back to good health. I wouldn't wish a seized engine or a defective transmission on anybody, but you did it to yourself. Good luck.
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Old 06-11-2010, 11:53 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Old 06-12-2010, 04:59 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Old 06-12-2010, 06:09 PM   #9 (permalink)
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actually i didn't need anything other than that.. i' only had it ifrom 57k to 88k now.. about the only thing that was coming up was belts, and a tranny flush.. and it wasn't just the lack of money it was the lack of funds and being destracted with my family dying and a divorce. And you have no idea what people do to cars... LOL you said no one goes 30k.. hell I've seen some cars... with 50k NEVER having it done and being traded in (7 years in auto sales in another life)... I love how some people "think" they know it all... and I totally admitted my mistake of knowing I was over due... by like 10 or 12k which you can get away with with synthetic... I just didn't realize and I was shocked when I did learn it was 27k. I have no idea how to change oil so it wasn't a matter of going to the store to just buy and filter and some oil... I had to go to a shop... and here they charge at least$60 bucks or more...again (Northern California **** is expensive here!) I get the whole pay a little now or a lot later... and I dunno if anyone caught i DID change the damn oil 3 weeks ago.... before any of this happened ...right? and again it ended up not being dirty oil it was a failure with the oil pump, it just was "old" hello the car was sold in 98...13 years ago!, and since it is getting a motor swap..it is getting eveything up to date... belts.. hoses ..etc. So Enough is enough already Fawk me... for crying sakes i just wanted to know some idea's and bounce what could have happened off people but no...can't do that.. just lay yourself on the ground and wait for people to kick ya! Jesus some of you guys are just plain fawking D2cks and need to either get past 25, or learn the art of "talking" to people VS attacking them... I FULLEY admitted I made an error... I can't change THAT error.. I can only change things from here forward... and to just deal with the current problem... which by now is on it's way to being corrected.
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Old 06-12-2010, 07:22 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Dude, you want to know what surprises me?

That 5 quarts of oil lasted 27k miles in a notoriously oil-burning H22. How much oil came out when you did the change?
-------------------------

Brock, I'd almost love to have your seized engine to take apart and rebuild if possible. I just want to see the damage of that mileage without an oil change, and the cause of the seize.

Willing to give it away?

Last edited by pIERCE; 06-12-2010 at 07:25 PM.
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Old 06-12-2010, 08:36 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Just because you changed the oil doesn't mean the engine was magically restored to pristine condition. I dont know how you've come up with that logic. The damage was done, it should be the biggest red flag you've ever seen in your life.

EVERYTHING that happened has to do with the oil. By driving nearly 30k miles the function of the oil filter disappeared long ago, since they should be changed atleast at every 7500 miles. Once filters get clogged they bypass the oil through them. This means that any metal debris in the oil wasn't getting filtered. I wouldn't be surprised if your sleeves look like hell. It also explains why your oil pump died. It's not because it's a 13 year old car, those only fail when a car is ill maintained. As with the sleeves, the metal debris probably caused the bearing in the oil pump to seize, which greatly inhibited the cooling of the block.
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Old 06-13-2010, 12:18 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I hate to say it shimee, but I think we've gotten beyond that.

His engine is toast. He is getting a swap/rid of the car. He is not trying to fix the motor.

End of story.
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Old 06-14-2010, 10:39 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brock707 View Post
-99 base auto with only 88k intake and exaust mod's only-
Fail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brock707 View Post
The other day after two weeks of getting the oil changed for the first time in a year and half...
Fail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brock707 View Post
I really cranked it up on the freeway screwing around with a prosche...
Fail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brock707 View Post
A little hisorty, I was 27,000 miles overdue for an oil change prior to the one i just had (I had added oil during that time just never changed it)
Fail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brock707 View Post
.. and yes I know dumb...
Win.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brock707 View Post
1 - What could have happened it only had 88k and had a major service at 58k (when I bought it 2 1/2 years ago).
Ya dun fried your motor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brock707 View Post
2 - Could the oil change place have made an error if so what should i look for?
Well, when you got the oil changed back in the day you could have checked the dipstick, a) to make sure they put the right amount back in, and, b) to see if the oil still looked like tar.

Quote:
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4 - How in danger is the tranny after said incident?
The transmission is already a wash. In the hands of an inexperienced person who neglects oil changes and fries his engine acting like an idiot with a much faster car... I'd wager it's definitely on its way out.



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Wow such aggression... so many thing to address first now that I find myself on the defense... I made 1 mistake... part of the reason.. was I was space cadet and it didn't enter my mind between my grandmother's, aunt, and fathers death within about a year period.. then finding out my mom is going to loose her house ..
At the end of the first period the score is as follows:

Your father, your aunt and your grandmother are still dead. Your mother may or may not have a house, and now your car is toast. So not having the money for an oil change netted you a 2.2L inline 4 cylinder paperweight.

Stuff happens.. people die. You're still alive, and you have to get on with it. What would you do if in that time your brakes needed to be changed? Put that off? Space out and forget?

Last month, my grandfather died and shafted me in the will. Later that same day my fiance told me via e-mail that he had been two timing me and that we were through. What did I do? I spent $5.00 on an oil filter, 60 on a washer, and $10 on a jug of oil and changed my oil as I planned to. I changed my valve cover gasket and the camshaft seal while I was at it.

It wasn't expensive and it wasn't difficult.


You can't just stop taking care of business because someone dies, or some other crises presents itself.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brock707 View Post
I have no idea how to change oil so it wasn't a matter of going to the store to just buy and filter and some oil... I had to go to a shop... and here they charge at least$60 bucks or more...again
Why can't you change your oil?

<--watch and learn.

I have never in my life heard of anyone paying $60 for an oil change on a Honda.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brock707 View Post
I get the whole pay a little now or a lot later... and I dunno if anyone caught i DID change the damn oil 3 weeks ago.... before any of this happened ...right? and again it ended up not being dirty oil it was a failure with the oil pump, it just was "old" hello the car was sold in 98...13 years ago!, and since it is getting a motor swap..it is getting eveything up to date... belts.. hoses ..etc. So Enough is enough already Fawk me... for crying sakes i just wanted to know some idea's and bounce what could have happened off people but no...can't do that.. just lay yourself on the ground and wait for people to kick ya! Jesus some of you guys are just plain fawking D2cks and need to either get past 25, or learn the art of "talking" to people VS attacking them... I FULLEY admitted I made an error... I can't change THAT error.. I can only change things from here forward... and to just deal with the current problem... which by now is on it's way to being corrected.
You neglected a car, and destroyed its engine while street racing... You admitted it. Fine. You get the trophy for being and idiot, being a careless driver and, for being honest.

Are you looking for a high five? You destroyed a car dude! Way to go dude! Duuuuuude!


Quote:
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As far as lying to a buyer about selling it, my law enforcement background prevents me from lying...
Quote:
I really cranked it up on the freeway screwing around with a prosche...
It doesn't stop you from street racing though does it? _

FAIL.
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Old 06-15-2010, 12:49 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Do you see the mistake that is at 1:11 in that video?
Some moron was using a Fram on an NSX. A FRAM ON AN NSX!

I can't believe that guy owns an NSX.
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Old 06-15-2010, 12:56 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Fram would be just fine in my opinion. Its just a filter. At least he is changing his unlike the OP. Changing the oil on that NSX looks much easier than on my SH.
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Old 06-15-2010, 02:03 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Fram would be just fine in my opinion. Its just a filter.
And that's where you're wrong. So many people see filters as "just" a filter.

You need to tear open a fram and compare it to a K&N or a Mobile1.

Frams are absolute **** man. They are made of cardboard, have less surface area of filtration material, and the pleats are inconsistent.

Frams are some of the worst filters you can buy.
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Old 06-15-2010, 03:35 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Later that same day my fiance told me via e-mail that he had been two timing me and that we were through.
Now we know why she's such a man-hater.
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Old 06-15-2010, 03:58 PM   #18 (permalink)
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This picture says it all:



Cardboard Fram filter FTL. Read this and you might learn something. Oil filter comparison, 4 top brand oil filters cut up and compared. - NASIOC
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Old 06-15-2010, 04:24 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Good to know about the Fram. I purchased a case of Honda filters and have just been using those. When I run out of them, I will definitely not buy Fram.
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Old 06-15-2010, 04:37 PM   #20 (permalink)
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^Good choice.

BTW, "Honda filters" are probably a waste of money, since they are more than likely a re-branded filter you could be cheaper elsewhere for the exact same thing, minus the Honda logo.
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