Starting to wonder if it's even possible to hit 200 whp without forced induction or Nitrous. After seeing Joel's H23 VTEC plot, I'm not even more doubtful. But then again, I would have expected more from the setup that was on there, so who knows.
Would this get me there?
I/H/E/P
Skunk2 IM (Just play along and assume it's actually going to come out please.)
Skunk stage 2 cams
STR TB
cam gears and VAFC that have been properly tuned
Maybe?
What about ditching the VAFC and getting a basic Hondata installed and tuned? worth the extra cash?
WTF are you talking about? 200WHP isn't that tough. I know of at least one that's only a few HP from that mark with only bolt-ons!
With these mods, assuming proper tuning, you should blow right past 200WHP. That's assuming you do it right; proper tuning, and I would also recommend the "freebies" while you're at it (EGR bypass, test pipe, tuneup, valve clearance, etc.). You'd be surprised what that kind of stuff can net.
Done right, I would expect this setup to be in the ballpark of 210WHP.
Originally posted by Satan_SRV I am convinced my dyno is bunk. I'll prove it when the motor is broken in.
LOL, ok, I didn't want to come at you like that, but I was pretty iffy on that and that graph was my main cause for concern.
It didn't seem like it was that big a deal, and with some conservative guessing I felt like I could easily run that number, I think I came up with 205 when I did some brain dyno work earlier. But then I saw Joels and I was like"Oh damn."
LOL, ok, I didn't want to come at you like that, but I was pretty iffy on that and that graph was my main cause for concern.
It didn't seem like it was that big a deal, and with some conservative guessing I felt like I could easily run that number, I think I came up with 205 when I did some brain dyno work earlier. But then I saw Joels and I was like"Oh damn."
Yeah we'll see what's up. All I know is there seemed to be a big difference between what the dyno said, and the power you could feel on the street...but what do I know...people say dynapacks dyno low and I say my power was higher...
Well, it seemed a little weird that a fully built H23 VTEC dyno'd at close to the same level of a bolt on H22. Tuning or not, I'd have to flag that as odd.
ok. I feel better now.
Side not, possibly slightly OT, anyone happen to know what they're looking for on an OBD2 car at the emmisions test? Like, if I do an EGR block off and a test pipe, but replace it a week before emmisions and reset the ECU, will it pass? Or if the ECU shows a recent reset, is that a failure?
there is a lot of talk on here about 200whp n/a dynos, dynos that are close to that with just bolt-ons, etc, but i have rarely if ever seen any of such creatures. lets see some dynos.
when i decided to go FI on my prelude, it was because i did a lot of research regarding moderate N/A setups. i know several people personally who have I/H/E/Cams/Gears//VAFC/Pullleys, etc, some with type-s pistons, and after spending several thousand bucks most are in the 170-180whp range, tuned on a dyno with wideband. obviously there are higher compression pistons than the type-s pistons, and much more radical cams than the type-s cams, but so far the only big numbers i've seen have been from very extensive and aggressive buildups, like the 2.44L h22.
^^^ What schwett said. I was planning on going all out and spending thousands on NA parts until I started looking at actual dynos. I don't think it is worth it without bumping up the compression and making some real power. But that's just my opinion, I'm not hating on anyone.
Originally posted by schwett i know several people personally who have I/H/E/Cams/Gears//VAFC/Pullleys, etc, some with type-s pistons, and after spending several thousand bucks most are in the 170-180whp range, tuned on a dyno with wideband.
Are you serious? There is a car here in the club that spun the dyno at 175 with just I/E just a week ago. If I spent money on all those bolt ons just to have someone out pull me with essentially just an Intake, I'd be pissed.
Were those numbers produced by 5 speeds? Because there is someone else here who is running a drag 4 kit at 9 pounds, and he;s only laying down 202 on the rollers, which again, would piss me off. But he's an SS.
sure, i'm serious. i've also seen a lot of 170-175whp dynos for just a few bolt-ons as you suggest. it's the next 15-30whp that seems to be much harder. i've seen well tuned ludes with pistons, cams, all the bolt-ons and headwork from portflow put down less than 180.
and yes, i'm talking manual trannies.
anyway, i'm not "hating" on anyone either, i just think a lot of people read these posts, and think, cool, i can spend a couple grand on a relatively moderate all motor h22 setup and hit 200whp easy. let's see it!
Quote:
Originally posted by Vapor
Are you serious? There is a car here in the club that spun the dyno at 175 with just I/E just a week ago. If I spent money on all those bolt ons just to have someone out pull me with essentially just an Intake, I'd be pissed.
Were those numbers produced by 5 speeds? Because there is someone else here who is running a drag 4 kit at 9 pounds, and he;s only laying down 202 on the rollers, which again, would piss me off. But he's an SS.
put the cat, egr, power steering, and air conditioning back on that 197whp car and you're going to be well below the 200 mark. most of the mods on that car are about reducing parasitic losses - the lighter flywheel, crank pulley, performance clutch, no cat, no exhaust, no a/c, no ps, no egr. most people here are trying to achieve those numbers the other way around, by actually increasing the output of the engine with higher compression and bigger cams...
I'll leave the person it is anonymous, I don't know that he wants to be known. As far as I can recall:
H22A4
AEM CAI
DC Sports Header
Greddy Evo Exhaust
Hondata manifold insulator (EGR blocked)
Test pipe
OBD2 workaround
VAFC
S2k TB (don't think it's adding anything)
UR crank pulley (no accessory)
Tightened valve lash (maybe to .005/.006"?)
STOCK:
Manifold (no p/p)
Head
Cams
Bottom end
p/s
<40k miles on the motor. I think that's it for mods.
Add cams to this and you have a screamer. The H22 is very capable of 200WHP na if done right, there's no doubt in my mind that with just the above bolt-ons, the right cams, and the right headwork (no bottom end) that it could make close to 220. Add pistons and I think it can do even better. Balance and blueprint and up the RPMs and you'd be approaching 300HP at the crank NA.
those are pretty good numbers for that setup. i wonder how much of a difference the cat is making - i have seen SO MANY prelude dynos which don't come close to that with the same or more mods.
Originally posted by schwett those are pretty good numbers for that setup. i wonder how much of a difference the cat is making - i have seen SO MANY prelude dynos which don't come close to that with the same or more mods.
I think the test pipe makes a big difference. I mean look at the torque...every crazy torque figure I have seen is with a test pipe.
Any H22 with cams should make over 200whp. If it doesnt...there are unseen problems with the motor. I don't see why people think 200whp is sooo hard to reach NA.
4bidden, that's a very bold and far-reaching and inaccurate statement. what kind of cams? what other bolt-ons? a stock h22 puts down about 160, maybe 165. you're saying just dropping in some cams is worth 50hp at the crank? i don't think so.
i know several luders personally with type-s cams, for example, and not a single one is over 180whp and they all have other mods - i/h/e/vafc blah blah.
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