I've got a complete H23 with a spun bearring (assumed) in my friends garage.
I've got a JDM H22A in my car now that imd riving with but oh man .. I miss the tq. If I could have done it right I'd have gotten H23Vtec but time restraint didnt allow for it.
SO! ...
Whats the cheapest/easiest way to stroke my H22 ?
I'm thinking H23 Crank/Rods but What do I need to have done to the H22 pistons to make it work ?
As well clearance issues will need to be resolved by bending the squirters ..
any other numbers people can throw out or explanation of differences is much appreciated.
PS - if people have questions on the whole h22head/h23block hybrid thing, do a search. The reason I'm creating this thread is because this tidbit of info is lost in the huge h23vtec threads and searching would take days.
Well simple fact is its not that easy, you have to pull the entire engine out, and apart again, replace all rods and the crankshaft. With ure now spare h23 parts. Also you would have to repair your crankshaft, and have it reground, and micropolished, then use some oversized bearings, since ure h23 crank is fubar'd if you spun that bearing. Not to mention I would get a full rotating assembly balance, done at the same time, and probably do all the bearings, rings, seals, while im at it. You would more then likely want to rehone the block to be safe as well.
Also keep in mind, using h22a pistons on h23 rods, will make you LOSE some compression. Due to wher the wrist pins sit on each piston. Plus like stated in other threads, you will lose top end rpms. (you want to keep this if you are N/A)
The h22a is meant to be driven above 5.4k Don't expect much out of it until then.
Overrall its not worth it, plus you are judging it, without ure car even running properly. Like I said numerous times, wait until you get it running fully operational, no cels, nothing. Then go take it up to some deserted road, and beat the **** out of it, and tell me if you still need to get that low end tq.
Also I'd hope you would be doing the work yourself, since that would also factor into cost. Of course machine work will not be done by you. Rebuliding an engine (which you basically are doing) is not as easy as swapping a new one in, not even close.
There is the ghetto way of doing this, and leaving the engine in the car, and just pulling the pistons out from the bottom, taking ure h23 rods and gettin the h22 pistons pressed on, and reassembling and then not balancing anything honing, replacing any bearings, but I gurantee you, the longevity of that motor you just bought will be compromised.
Price on the crank regrind is $200 canadian. Then add on price for piston pressed onto rods.
I was thinking of all the above, but the way I see it .. if I blow it oh well. I dunno, maybe I should just play with my H23 block or something ... I'm just curious because I've been asking around, friend of mine said he's spoken to 3 people whove gone from h23 to h22 daily drivers and hated the loss in low end power .. keep in mind I have an H2 2tranny ... it really doesnt make sense to be running the engine at above 5.5k in the city as a daily driver ... especially since i'm dropping out of vtec so low in 1st/2nd .. and it takes so long to get there ...
we'll see what happens when I clean the codes, but for the mean time ... after having H23 with 9.1:1 CR, I dont think i'll care much for compression loss .. it'll still be hovering above 10 with H23 rods & H22 pistons ... or , can I use H22 rods on an H23 crank ?...
what are the different combos of stock parts on the h23 / F20b crank?
If you miss the loss of torque from H23 to H22 but want more power then sell your car and get a V8 domestic. The reason the H23 makes more low end is because it's a stroked motor and tuned for low end. You will be hard pressed to make something with the grunt of an H23 but the top end of an H22 or better without FI or a LOT of work.
I would not expect to just be able to polish a crank with a spun bearing. You might not be able to get it to work at all depending on how bad the damage is.
If you go with an H23 VTEC and don't do it right it is not going to last unless you keep the H23 RPMs which kind of defeats the purpose.
Crank regrind would work fine, they just have to weld up the the damaged location and regrind it. of course its not the safest way, but it will do the job.
Don't forget that if the crank was heat treated, the welding destroys the heat treat, so the crank will need to be retreated in order to regain its original strength.
You won't gain much stroke with just h22a rods and h22a pistons, and probably wouldnt' be worth it, the MAIN gain you are getting is the shorter h23 rods.
WHAT? The rods and pistons have NOTHING to do with stroke. Stroke is determined by the crank alone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient
You won't gain much stroke with just h22a rods and h22a pistons, and probably wouldnt' be worth it, the MAIN gain you are getting is the shorter h23 rods.
The rods are shorter on an H23 because the H23 and H22 deck heights are the same. Since the stroke is longer, the rod must be shorter to compensate for the longer stroke at TDC. If the deck height were high enough, the H23 could use H22 rods and pistons without any problems.
As for the compression height of the pistons, I'm guessing that the H23 uses a shorter compression height due to the stroke, but I'm not 100% sure. What is the difference between the compression heights on the H23 and H22 pistons?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient
its the crank rods and pistons all together, the crank has deeper stroke, the rods are shorter, and the pistons sit lower on the rod.
Ah ure right, i went and took a look at the specs of the rods, and deck height, and length of the stroke with both cranks. My bad, but yea in essence it doesn't matter anyways, you need all 3.
But with H23 pistons at 9.1:1 compression .. Whats holding me back from using H23 crank/rods and H22 pistons ??
It looks like (with combined knowledge) we're nearing the answer to my original question ..
If it is simply to get H23 crank/rods and rebush the rods for H22 pistons.. Hurray!
No because H series blocks are more expensive .. isn't the F20 crank the same as the H23 crank ? .. how about the rods ? ... F series can be found cheapy cheapy so if we could rebush F2x rods to work with H22 pistons ... thats the cheapest
I am pretty sure the deck heights are the same, so this tells me someone didn't get the rod dimensions dead on (probably nother digit in there amounting to the .0065" difference). At any rate, this tells us:
H23A1 with H22A Pistons
ROD LENGTH: 5.571"
STROKE: 3.740"
BORE SIZE: 3.425" (87MM)
COMPRESSION HEIGHTS: 1.222"
NEW Cylinder block deck height = Crankshaft throw + connecting rod length + piston compression height
= 8.663
Assuming the actual deck height of the H22/H23 block is 8.6375 OR that the actual rod length difference is roughly .060, your new crank/rod/piston combo will stick out of the hole 8.663-8.6375= .0255 or almost .030". You would need to machine the head accordingly.
You can enter the bore and stroke and figure out what a compression increase that would be. I am not sure of the dome or head CC's (exactly) but using H22 numbers for that you would be looking at a compression increase of about 0.5. Not much for the amount of work, and you would have to take special care to ensure that you didn't run any piston to valve or even dome interference.
There is a reason you don't hear people talking about the F/H frankenstein you are talking about...
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