Valve Adjustment .0007 won't go though for EX - Honda Prelude Forum

Dragazn · 02-12-2003, 10:50 AM

I just got the head back from Alaniz for Pnp, this is what the head have
.5mm oversize valve
crower spring/retainer
crower stage 2 cams

Everything work fine as the local prformance shop was doing the valve adjustment .0007 will not even clear the Exhaust , all 4 cylinder and yes they did it in order. Can some see if you can help me, the INT is ine just the exhuast, now the local performance shop said the Alaniz proberly **** up o n the valve job. What can cause this?

marcucci · 02-12-2003, 11:01 AM

I thought you already had Endyn stuff?

Can the shop not adjust the valves, or what? Are they saying that they physically can't adjust the valves to open up the clearance? No more adjustment left?

It is conceiveable that if the valve stem were too long that it would cause you to run out of adjustment on the head. If that's the case they should talk to Alaniz. If you contracted the work from Alanisz yourself then it sounds like you need to talk to them.

Dragazn · 02-12-2003, 11:03 AM

"If you contracted the work from Alanisz yourself then it sounds like you need to talk to them.
" yes i hav to contact them myself since i did it. But can there be any other factor in geeting this thing worng?

marcucci · 02-13-2003, 06:05 AM

I would get a clear statement from the shop (Intercrew?) about what they say the problem is. Is there no adjustment left? Feed that info back to Alaniz, that's all you can do.

If the valve stems are too long you can probably shave the end down some. If not that, then you can probably shave the end of the rocker arm down some. You have to find out why there is interference, though.

Dragazn · 02-13-2003, 10:21 AM

I talk to Alaniz they said that they will shave down the rocker arm asembly on the EX, but if they do taht what can happen later, as in weaker rocker arm asembly? it might break right?. Also if they shave it down that would tat solve the long valve problem hitting the piston too or no?

71dsp · 02-13-2003, 11:13 AM

I think first off, you need to find out the exact problem that the shop is having. Without knowing what the problem is, how can you fix it?

If the valve stems are too long, the valves should be pulled and the stems machined down. Shaving the rocker arms is not only a bad idea (it will probably weaken the assembly) it's fixing the symptom and not the problem.

If you shaved the rocker arms to fix the clearance issue, you shouldn't have problems with piston/valve clearance, unless you had a problem with that prior to the headwork.

Is the shop doing a clay test? That's a good idea since you're going with oversized valves.

Just for reference, the clearance is 0.007", not 0.0007".

marcucci · 02-13-2003, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 71dsp
[B]If the valve stems are too long, the valves should be pulled and the stems machined down. Shaving the rocker arms is not only a bad idea (it will probably weaken the assembly) it's fixing the symptom and not the problem.

But machining the stem would NOT do the same? The stem should be hardened or tool steel, I don't think the rocker arm is. As such I would think machining the rocker would be better.

I also figure that you might not have much room to work with due to the keepers, but we (hopefully) are only talking about a few thousandths of an inch.

Quote:

Is the shop doing a clay test? That's a good idea since you're going with oversized valves.

I think we are talking about Intercrew which would inevitably mean no. I think they strictly do assembly.

Johnny, find out exactly what the issue is they are having, or get THEM to talk to Alaniz.

71dsp · 02-13-2003, 11:33 AM

Then the valves need to be replaced with valves that are the proper size.

There's no excuse for a shop that does headwork not to check the installed height of the springs after all is said and done. If the installed height is within spec, then the problem is the material above the groove for the keepers, and it can be machined off.

The valve rockers are under more stress than the tip of the valve stem, I woud think. Also, what part of the rocker would they shave? The pad? The pad is surface hardened, so shaving anything off of the pad will ruin the surface hardening. The only other alternative I see is shaving the adjustment screw. Either way, it's fixing the symptom and not the problem.

If the valve stems are the problem, they need to be fixed/replaced.

sweetprelude · 02-13-2003, 01:21 PM

are these stock valves? also its a good idea to get the vavles and head reseated so it will fit properly. any machine shop can do this.

marcucci · 02-13-2003, 02:18 PM

Interesting point; if there is interference, where is it? If you can't adjust the screw loose enough, does that mean the valve stem is impacting the rocker arm surface around it? Is the stem smaller than the screw hole? I think it is! That should mean that the screw would fall out before they ran out of adjustment.

Johnny, get Intercrew to talk to Alaniz. Then tell us what they say.

Xplicit · 02-14-2003, 03:55 AM

Just curious how did the head turn out, as far as the p&p goes. Did they do a clean job? Have any pics?

Dragazn · 02-14-2003, 07:49 AM

i got pix, but the flash screw up a lot of thing.
Anyway talk to Alaniz again he said mail him the whole head assembly and he will work on it to see what the problem is, i'll get back to ya on this the valve is oversize .5mm

71dsp · 02-14-2003, 08:23 AM

Valve size has nothing to do with your problem. We're referring to the installed height of the valve stem (including the retainer and valve springs) not the diameter of the big end of the valve.

preluded · 02-14-2003, 07:00 PM

I had a similar problem and the retainers caused it. I had stock cams with crower springs and retainers. It destoyed both cams and the rocker arms. Crower has two retainers available for h22's they have the same part number except the one that has enough clearance has a D at the end.

bb6flier · 02-15-2003, 06:23 AM

Perhaps they cut the valve seats up too high... If installed height is a problem after a valve job then 99% of the time they over cut the seats. If the valves are the correct height (after comparing them to the stock ones) then they will either need to buy you a new head or have the valve seats welded and recut!

*EDIT* When I say comparing the height to the old ones, I mean free standing height not installed height.. If they are the same as the old ones I would tell them to buy me a new head if I was in your place.

Dragazn · 02-16-2003, 04:52 PM

So are you saying is crower pring/retainer tht cause this?

Xplicit · 02-17-2003, 08:15 PM

Well I'm also getting crower springs and retainers, pnp, 3 angle valve job, and ss valves 0.5

I told my mechanic what happened to you and he said with these springs and retainers you have to clear the rocker arms. So it seems alaniz isn't to familiar with H22a heads. The guy that I took it too had like 4 h22 heads he was working on.

The polish goes all the way down to the guides

preluded · 02-18-2003, 06:51 PM

three different machine shops that looked at it all thought the springs and retainers caused the problem. Brian at Crower said it was because I used Mobil-1 oil. So if you use this spring set up make sure to check all of your clearances.

Joon525 · 02-23-2003, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by preluded
I had a similar problem and the retainers caused it. I had stock cams with crower springs and retainers. It destoyed both cams and the rocker arms. Crower has two retainers available for h22's they have the same part number except the one that has enough clearance has a D at the end.

Sorry to bring this up again but I had to ask....I don't see 2 nearly identical part numbers on Crower's site. The part number you're referring to is 68184 right?
Anyone else had this problem occur?

EDIT: nevermind.....I looked around the site more and found the part numbers.

Dragazn · 02-24-2003, 03:55 PM

So its the spring and retainer from Crower then, i call Brian and he said its not his spring/retainer problem. Well Alaniz is looking at the head now to see what is wrong with it. Damn so much hassel. If i found out its crower problem i'm going to ask them to paid for the fee to take off my head, b/c i have to paid that now. The fee for installation and ****