Ive been playing with DynoSim engine simulation software to make a good model of the H22 and I wanted to show you gusy the cam specs ive come up with (based on what data I can find and then reverse engineerign to match dyno data I have). For those of you who work with Honda OE cams often, or who have measured lobes (dailed-in), do these cam specs and timing events look correct for an H22A4?
So how does that look? How about the set durration, valve ramp, event and sepperation angles, Do they look accurate? Off to nihongo tutoring, I love vacation days!!!
ps- Ive got the material for my 5th prototype header and am waiting on shop time to get to building it, grad school and work took all of my time since August...
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Last edited by leptolude : 01-07-2005 at 03:49 PM.
Reason: added 2nd dyno
Ive been playing with DynoSim engine simulation software to make a good model of the H22 and I wanted to show you gusy the cam specs ive come up with (based on what data I can find and then reverse engineerign to match dyno data I have). For those of you who work with Honda OE cams often, or who have measured lobes (dailed-in), do these cam specs and timing events look correct for an H22A4?
OMG, Lepto you're my hero!
I was thinking about doing this exact same thing. I was going to use Stanjan, which is a free package mentioned in a great engines book I have. However, this GUI looks a lot more purty.
I too was thinking about playing with cam specs using a simulation package like this. I don't know about stock cams, but you can get cam specs from all the major cam manufacturers websites. I am interested in getting your config files for Dynosim and doing some playing around myself.
Since all the major cam manufacturers have cam breakage problems, my idea would be to get regrinds of stock cams (and have them cryotreated). This would be perfrect for picking custom specs. Even better if we could create profiles for common I/H/E setups, or FI setups, which I think are very poorly supported for the H22.
DynoSim is good for the money, and they are releasing a pressure wave add-on module for dimension specific manifolding at the end of this month, and its pretty fun. The FI and NA models produce results that are "pretty close" to the plots in the FI board fo po.com. Id be happy to share config files with anyone. I havent figured out how to adjust for specific tranny losses though (ive got an SH )
now how about those cam specs?? marcucci, mc, billy, dr, shark et al, anyone?... come on guys I know at least one of you has an indicator and an H22 on a stand ATM if you dont alreayd have the specs.
I think I have better cam specs now. I had to ditch the durration that Crower has listed of 275 to do it though (I always thoought that was high for a factory cam, maybe they measured from 0.002" or somthing). I tweaked these specs for several hours today to get it right. Do the following cam specs look accurate for an H22A4?
and the resulting output (to wheels, matched against the plot below):
C'mon you guys with the indicators and wheels, help me out please
I think I have better cam specs now. I had to ditch the durration that Crower has listed of 275 to do it though (I always thoought that was high for a factory cam, maybe they measured from 0.002" or somthing). I tweaked these specs for several hours today to get it right. Do the following cam specs look accurate for an H22A4?
C'mon you guys with the indicators and wheels, help me out please
HEY, Why did the BB1 get such a better shop mannual?!?!? Thanks Ken!
So the BB1 H22 vtec lobes int/exh have 235deg durration, according to the mannual. That must be in 0.05" or maybe 1mm lift measurement...
The 97+ mannual has no such info. I wonder how much the cams changed between the 92+ and 97+ H22...? I'll plug those #s in latter and see what comes out. One interesting thing i've learned by usign the software is that there seem to be many cam specs that can yield similiar torque curves on a single engine (im sure there are significant differneces in emmisions, valve-train wear etc etc thought).
Where was Crower measureing from to get 275deg durration ??
All older Honda manuals are better (late 80's, early 90's, at least). For whatever reason Honda used to put a lot more information into them.
Your best bet is to get a set of v-blocks, a degree wheel, dial indicator, and index a set of cams yourself. The 4g info should be enough to verify what you have but if you want it accurate... you have some more work ahead of you.
I would bet that the 4g and 5g cams aren't THAT different. Probably a few degrees duration and maybe a few thou lift.
You have to watch cam specs; some will spec duration at in. of valve lift, in. of lobe lift, and all by varying amounts.
All older Honda manuals are better (late 80's, early 90's, at least). For whatever reason Honda used to put a lot more information into them.
Your best bet is to get a set of v-blocks, a degree wheel, dial indicator, and index a set of cams yourself. The 4g info should be enough to verify what you have but if you want it accurate... you have some more work ahead of you.
I would bet that the 4g and 5g cams aren't THAT different. Probably a few degrees duration and maybe a few thou lift.
You have to watch cam specs; some will spec duration at in. of valve lift, in. of lobe lift, and all by varying amounts.
It depends what information you're going after. If you want the shape of the lobe on the camshaft, then the V-blocks and dial indicator will be fine. If the valve lift profile is necessary, then taking measurements on the assembled valvetrain is necessary. The locations of the camshaft centerbore, follower radius center, valve tip, and valve angle will all determine the actual valve lift.
It always comes down to taking one's own data doesnt it I wonder what look I would get if I asked the engineering research librarians at UofM what the cam specs on an H22A4 were...?
Thanks for the tips guys, I dont have a dial indicator yet, any reccomendations? How about:
All degree wheels are crank mounted right? Think I could get one on a motor in car and use a dial indicator to meausre cams on the head? Or is there a reasonibly accurate way to get an angle with a V block test set up (come to think of it, machinists must have a way to do that without cutting deg lines into thier fixtures...
that'd be great if i could measure the cams with the motor in the car (althought I dont know how accurate I coudl be rotating the crank in that setup). But if its not possibel then I would need an extra set of cams to measure... Maybe someone with a nice new set of crower 2s installed might have some sitting around, and wouldnt mind lending them to me ?
I realy need (I think) to measure durration (seat to seat or 0.05"), gross lift and valve events. The Dynosim software has some auto lift ramp estimator.
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I know at least one of you has an indicator and an H22 on a stand ATM 
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