R&D Dyno H22 Cylinder Head - Honda Prelude Forum

MugenPoweredLude · 09-16-2003, 09:57 PM

I was reading the October issue of Super Street and they had a civic with an H22 in it and they had a write up on how to install one of R&D Dyno's heads....basically the article stated after tuning that the head provided 15whp for $899 and you have to send them your head....turnaround time is 2 weeks.

The head comes back to you cleaned, resurfaced, CNC-ported, reassembled and some valve alterations are made to it.

For 15whp and a better flowing head all for $899 is a little steep(considering u can spend that much and get 75 at the flip of a switch) it seems ok.....
Im contemplating getting this done as im looking for a little more grunt from my lude....
i have a question tho....

my next modifications include NX wet kit and maybe and this is a BIG mabye...UR Pullies...including the crank....and a clutch....then whenever i get the money im building the motor for a big fat turbo

my question is can i run this ported head with a nitrous setup??? and what can i do to further maximize the gains??? im thinking throttle body???
and my last question is...when i go FI would this head be good to go with for my FI setup or would i have to get a new head and new P&P job just for FI???

i guess the 2nd question is the one really holding me back from getting this done....i dont want to spend money on it and then have to ditch it and get a new head and get that ported for FI use...

anyone have some insight on this???

TIA

NXLude · 09-16-2003, 10:00 PM

ported head will work fine with nitrous....

MugenPoweredLude · 09-16-2003, 10:04 PM

ok good, i just wanted to make sure

what would u or anyone else suggest to get the most out of the ported head??? i might as well throw on a Hondata IM gasket....im thinking bigger TB???? and have the IM port matched????

marcucci · 09-16-2003, 10:18 PM

Not only will it work fine, it will work great.

I question the amount of work for that dollar amount. I don't question the amount, but I question the value. Dollar per HP that's pretty lame. I would suggest cams for that price (won't require removal of the head) or a different ECU or tuning.

Iwould only port match the manifold, don't go for afull P&P (see TimeRacer's dyno plot) unless you are going for a FULL motor build. The larger TB is also a waste unless you are doing some more work. The Hondata IM is worth it's weight in gold but hard to justify unless the IM is already off. Read up on the EGR bypass, though, before you do it, to make sure it's right for you.

MugenPoweredLude · 09-16-2003, 11:10 PM

i want to do cams also but i plan on going FI after this and dont want to spend more than i have to...when i have no idea so i forsee me keeping this upcoming setup for a while

i do agree that the price is pretty lame
can u recommend anyone better???

Quote:

I would only port match the manifold, don't go for afull P&P (see TimeRacer's dyno plot) unless you are going for a FULL motor build.

i dont quite understand what youre saying

....at first you say it will work great then you question the value which i am also questioning

so youre saying i shouldnt get the head P&P'd at all??? why would that be???

i just want the most out of my proposed setup....if i cant get the head P&P'd then what should I do to get the most out of it???

TIA

marcucci · 09-17-2003, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MugenPoweredLude
i want to do cams also but i plan on going FI after this and dont want to spend more than i have to...when i have no idea so i forsee me keeping this upcoming setup for a while

So..... what? My recommendation stays the same. If you get cams now and they don't fit with FI then you can sell them and do headwork later. This is all just based on price, though. Headwork is always good.

Quote:

i do agree that the price is pretty lame
can u recommend anyone better???

Not necessarily for the price. Headwork is always expensive. You can probably get away with less (such as not doing the valves) for 95% of the same performance gains but that means you will have to be very specific in what you ask for.

Quote:

i dont quite understand what youre saying ....at first you say it will work great then you question the value which i am also questioning

so youre saying i shouldnt get the head P&P'd at all??? why would that be???

I'm saying that the headwork will work as well or better with NOS than it will on any other car. It will result in a power increase. What I wonder is why you would blow $1k on headwork (not including R&R from what I can see) for a 15WHP gain when you can get that from cams for a little less and a lot less R&R work. It seems like a foolish investment unless you are doing a lot more work, there are better (cheaper) ways to get power out of the motor.

Quote:

i just want the most out of my proposed setup....if i cant get the head P&P'd then what should I do to get the most out of it???

What proposed setup? All you've mentioned so far are a few bolt-ons and NOS.

MugenPoweredLude · 09-17-2003, 09:48 AM

hmmm so get cams and nitrous instead of the headwork eh???

ok now that i think about it, it sounds reasonable and cost effective....

so with the cams should i go with something like a Stage2 from Crower???.....a while back i wanted to go with Skunk2 but Ive read that you would have to raise the redline a bit to get the most out of them...
can you recommend Cams??? Crower Stage 2's or something else???

i wanted to get the headwork out of the way now because I had the "BIG" picture in mind(the picture being a fully built turbo motor sometime down the road)but I guess im going to put that on hold for now

when i was reading your reply i was going to do both but then I thought to myself the money that i would be spending would be probally close to a turbo kit and then i could just save a little more for a EMS.....if thats the case i might just ditch this setup all together and head to the dark side...but it would be nice to have a little more power on tap until then

Thank You for your advice.

marcucci · 09-17-2003, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MugenPoweredLude
so with the cams should i go with something like a Stage2 from Crower???.....a while back i wanted to go with Skunk2 but Ive read that you would have to raise the redline a bit to get the most out of them...

I would recommend the Skunk2 Stage 1 or Crower Stage 2 for your application. Either one should be fine for light bolt-ons and NOS. Stay away from the Skunk2 Stage 2 and the Crower Stage 3 as they will likely be too aggressive and require a LOT more in the way of parts (valve springs and retainers).

Quote:

i wanted to get the headwork out of the way now because I had the "BIG" picture in mind(the picture being a fully built turbo motor sometime down the road)but I guess im going to put that on hold for now

By all means, you can still do it. But doing it requires a lot more labor in R&R and will produce less gain by itself. With just the cams you will still spend some in labor (that will pay again if you have head work done) but it will produce more gains for your dollar now. If you are planning for the long-term then order you do the items in doesn't matter that much.

MugenPoweredLude · 09-17-2003, 02:35 PM

ok thank you again.....what would put out more power???
Skunk Stage 1's or the Crower Stage 2's????

also...i have searched but really dont quite comprehend the whole stock idle lobes on the Crowers...care to clarify this for me please?

ive decided that I will go with the head and cams..why? because i dont see my turbo project coming into play until at least for 2 years...i moving and dont really have money to spend on the project so the head, cams and Nitrous will do me just fine for now

Oh yeah, stupid question....whats R&R???

and i would like to thank you again for all your help

MugenPoweredLude · 09-17-2003, 06:20 PM

oh yea you said to check out TimeRacer's dyno.....does he have more than one because i only found this one...

Prelude SH dyno

marcucci · 09-18-2003, 06:58 AM

Yes, there is another. He installed a manifold I p&p'd for him as well as a bored S2k TB. The gains were less than impressive, not worth the money.

The Skunk2 Stage 1 and Crower Stage 2 are roughly equal. I don't think you will notice a power improvement with one over the other. The Crowers are easier to get so I would recommend those.

The "idle" lobes are just the non-VTEC cam lobes. They are responsible for how the car acts below VTEC. The Crower Stage 2 "modified" non-VTEC lobes don't affect idle according to them. From what I understand they improve the low end across the board without hurting idle or low-end driveability.

R&R is Removal and Replacement (labor).

MugenPoweredLude · 09-18-2003, 11:02 AM

so i should get The Crower Stage 2 "modified" non-VTEC lobes, correct???

ive read that the crowers(forgot which one it was tho)caused a low idle and u would have to raise the idle just to keep it from stalling

marcucci · 09-18-2003, 12:25 PM

Not true according to them. It's only the stage 3 that requires monkeying with the idle. At least, this is what I was told by the 2 different people I talked to on the phone.

MugenPoweredLude · 09-18-2003, 12:41 PM

yea those are the ones that i read about where you have to play with the idle

so i should get The Crower Stage 2 "modified" non-VTEC lobes, correct???

Thanks Again!!!

mcgranman · 09-19-2003, 01:47 AM

I own the crower stage 2 with the modified idle lobes.
If you get the Stage 2 with the stock idle lobes you will not have any problems.
However you will have problems with the vehicle stalling with the modified idle lobes from crower.
My cousin had to play with an idle adjustment valve on the TB. Don't know exactly which one. From the factory it preludes are set to go real low around 350-400 rpm, and then back up to 700rpm (stock idle). My cousin set it up to go to 1000rpm stop for a second, and go down to 700rpm. Its better, but still stalls from time to time.
You should PM bdb. He truly fixed his problem with a hondata ecu. Said that you needed to mess with the idle fuel map a little bit.

MugenPoweredLude · 09-19-2003, 09:57 AM

i guess im going to go with the stock idle lobes then...

anyone know if the sponsors sell them for a good price or a website???? PM or email me about the website

mcgranman · 09-19-2003, 09:01 PM

Got my cams from afterhourz for $525 when they had that sale
also got the Valve Springs and Tit. retainers for $350 on the same deal. Don't know what happened to them though.

One thing that I didn't know when installing, is the to use the Titanium retainers, your supposed to grind a little bit of meat or steel off the bottom of the lifters so that you could get the proper valve adjustments, so I had to take them out and put in the Stock retainers. Just keep that in mind if you upgrade the springs. Don't know if you will run into this problem with another companies valve train....

Dragazn · 09-20-2003, 12:42 AM

From what I know and in my hand and last expierence with Crower retainer that works with the stage 2 cams for higher RPM that pass our rev limiter, MAKE SURE " that you tell who ever is doing the head to measure the valve adjustment to see if it clear, you have to do some custom **** there to make it work." B/C Crower retainer is thicker then the OEM one and it won't clear. Me and the installer of the head and the one who port the head have a crazy ride.

mcgranman · 09-20-2003, 05:59 AM

I have pic that Crower sent me of what I should do to get proper clearence between the lifter and retainer. But I can't post it, don't know why. Forum wont let me.
Any way they said they do this because they wanted a little extra room for the spring to guarantee that there will be no coil binding. Like DragAZN said, the valve spring and the retainers are only realy needed if you plan on going higher than the factory rev limit. I also called crower, the said that there was no problems with using the factory retainers with the Crower valve springs. THey also said that be wary of mis shifting and over revving, because then the springs may bind.
PM me if you want the Pic.

NotoriouSH · 09-22-2003, 09:05 AM

If you sent them your head along with aftermarket cams, valves, springs, and retainers, would you get it sent back reassembled with the new parts? If that was the case the overall gain might be worth the money. Comparing the price of NA to turbo really isn't fair, because people go NA for reasons other than the amount of overall power produced. I can see this head along with the right cams, header, exhaust, intake, and tuning breaking the 200 whp mark.