aight, after several weeks of thinking this through i have finally made my decision. I first thought about boostin the h22, but that fell through and i decided to go the NA route.
The project car, My 1992 White s w/jdm h22a. non-lsd (but will be included in project)
All the work will be done by JDMConcepts in vista, CA ( though i still have to aproach for this)
Suspension-
Kyb agx+ Ground Control Coilovers
St front and rear sway bar
Rear upper strut tower bar (spoon)
Brakes-
Power slot front rotors w/ axxis pads
Rear upgraded rotors w/ axxis pads
Exterior-
New CF vis hood
satan CF lip (hopefully, im still contemplating this)
Engine-
new Aem intake SRI
New custom header w/ 2.5 in collector
Carsound cat
2.5 In w/ apexi dunk exhaust
Prospec cams and valvetrain
P&P head
prospec FPR
VAFC II
act 6 puck clutch
lightweight al flywheel
stock bottom end....
and a few other things. I will also have it tuned by JDMconcepts also.
Well, any replys thoughts, or question, feel free to ask.
See yall soon...
Originally posted by cdpyro425 Whats up everybody ?
aight, after several weeks of thinking this through i have finally made my decision. I first thought about boostin the h22, but that fell through and i decided to go the NA route.
The project car, My 1992 White s w/jdm h22a. non-lsd (but will be included in project)
All the work will be done by JDMConcepts in vista, CA ( though i still have to aproach for this)
Suspension-
Kyb agx+ Ground Control Coilovers
St front and rear sway bar
Rear upper strut tower bar (spoon)
Brakes-
Power slot front rotors w/ axxis pads
Rear upgraded rotors w/ axxis pads
Exterior-
New CF vis hood
satan CF lip (hopefully, im still contemplating this)
Engine-
new Aem intake SRI
New custom header w/ 2.5 in collector
Carsound cat
2.5 In w/ apexi dunk exhaust
Prospec cams and valvetrain
P&P head
prospec FPR
VAFC II
act 6 puck clutch
lightweight al flywheel
stock bottom end....
and a few other things. I will also have it tuned by JDMconcepts also.
Well, any replys thoughts, or question, feel free to ask.
See yall soon...
Carlos
Not a bad list; it should net you great gains, especially on the JDM motor.
I have a few comments though:
You don't need to upgrade your rotors, unless your stockers are worn out. Just stick with the pads. Personally, I would choose the Carbotech Bobcats over the Axxis pads.
I would go with the Top Speed intake over the AEM at this point.
The 2.5" exhaust will give you crazy top end, but your low end might suffer a little. Be forwarned if low-end is important to you.
The value of a P&P head is directly related to where the work is done. There are only 3 places I would trust to work on an H22 head and not make it worse. Choose your shop wisely.
Good luck with your build.
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Originally posted by NotoriouSH Seems a lot tamer than I was expecting. Should be a nice overall package though, definately better than stock in all areas.
though it may seem tame, im actually looking to net 230-235 whp (w/ 10.6 Cr) . I am thinking of ditching the VAFCII for a hondata ( in the process of attaining one) I will also be purchasing the Hondata IM Gasket. The cams that will be going in are custom cams ground by Prospec, as are the TI retainers and valvesprings.
I will also be boring out the TB and having it port-matched to the IM.after some more contemplating and thinking i also decided to put in a quaife LSD. An msd digital 6 will also accompany the new NA engine.
Artifex- Sorry bro my rotors are gone...lol, i already have NSX Calipers, but my brakes r gone...lol, also on another note, i completely trust my mechanic and his shop on the Head port and polishing. His work is top notch. (on a b20vtec, stock bottom end....he netted 207whp with just a p28 and vafc. i trust him)
Looking good as an all-rounder... fyi on the Hondata IM gasket, it's not -really- a power adder per se, but it does deliver more consistant results on the track and on the dyno if you were to do a few runs over...
Originally posted by cdpyro425 though it may seem tame, im actually looking to net 230-235 whp (w/ 10.6 Cr) .
That is incredibly optimistic. I would double check some of the results in the dyno thread to set your expectations. I know of no one with those level of mods that come close to 230....
Quote:
i completely trust my mechanic and his shop on the Head port and polishing. His work is top notch. (on a b20vtec, stock bottom end....he netted 207whp with just a p28 and vafc. i trust him)
It isn't about whether you trust him or not. He could be the nicest guy in the world, but unless he has specifically done H series before I would be highly skeptical. I don't want you posting in here a month from now saying how your shiny new head only made 200 WHP.
For what its worth, B series heads are pretty different from H series. My impression is that B series heads lend themselves to more obvious porting methods. My other impression is that an H series does not. If traditional porting techniques are used on an H series head, then it will likely perform worse. Don't believe me? Check out the best resource here: http://www.theoldone.com/articles/h22a_head/.
Anyways, it sounds like you have already made up your mind, so do what you want. I just want to save you from being too dissapointed though.
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though it may seem tame, im actually looking to net 230-235 whp (w/ 10.6 Cr) . I am thinking of ditching the VAFCII for a hondata ( in the process of attaining one)
230 hp? I'll wait till I see a dyno number on that. good luck though.
Originally posted by Artifex
That is incredibly optimistic. I would double check some of the results in the dyno thread to set your expectations. I know of no one with those level of mods that come close to 230....
It isn't about whether you trust him or not. He could be the nicest guy in the world, but unless he has specifically done H series before I would be highly skeptical. I don't want you posting in here a month from now saying how your shiny new head only made 200 WHP.
For what its worth, B series heads are pretty different from H series. My impression is that B series heads lend themselves to more obvious porting methods. My other impression is that an H series does not. If traditional porting techniques are used on an H series head, then it will likely perform worse. Don't believe me? Check out the best resource here: http://www.theoldone.com/articles/h22a_head/.
Anyways, it sounds like you have already made up your mind, so do what you want. I just want to save you from being too dissapointed though.
Thanks for your reply though, artifex. in actuality i think 230 will be possible, but 235 is a little high (yes, i am being optimistic)...lol, Acutally he had another prelude there with a completely built h22 head, stock bottom end, which netted 219-220 whp...he has done many H heads and i have done my research on the h22.... Once again, this is a project and we will continue to modify my project as we see fit. I will keep you all updated. Wish me luck...lol
All we are saying is that there have been many guys on here that have made some pretty hardcore NA projects that were pretty extensive that havent made that kind of power. We wish you the best of luck though.
230.....not going to happen...unless someone comes out with a better intake and you get one of those smsp? headers and a whole lot of tuning...even then probably won't happen......
Originally posted by THEDREAD 230.....not going to happen...unless someone comes out with a better intake and you get one of those smsp? headers and a whole lot of tuning...even then probably won't happen......
Satan...have you tuned your beast yet?
Well that's what it made...since the head gasket started leaking it's been grounded for the winter and now i am going with ITBs, SMSP Header and AEM EMS so it should be a fun spring.
when i was still thinking of going NA i was going to do 11.5 : 1 compression with a greddy or fujitsubo header, something like crower stage two cams, bottom end stuff, upping the rev limiter like 500rpms, every bolt-on possible, and a port match (not a full p&p job). I think i was being realistic and crossing my fingers hoping for 220. Dont get your hopes up for that 240. If it happens, more power to you, but just realize what u might be getting urself into.
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1999 Prelude 2.2 VTi 4WS
I speak fluent typo
Well that's what it made...since the head gasket started leaking it's been grounded for the winter and now i am going with ITBs, SMSP Header and AEM EMS so it should be a fun spring.
yeah, so um.. we need pics, movies, sound clips, dyno charts, and time slips
sounds like a ton of fun man
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1999 Prelude 2.2 VTi 4WS
I speak fluent typo
Im planning on doing something close to this. I will stay with stock bottom end. I will get the welded combustion chambers and mill the head down to raise compression, i will also use stock sized flat faced vlaves.I will also send the head away to get nicely P&p'd along with some nice custom cams, along with SMSPs header. Im looking at prolly 220whp right there. And then when i get more money i will use type S pistons. But are type S pistons vavle reliefs deep enouugh to handle that? O yea i will be looking at 230ish on this setup. My comp will prolly be around 11:8 ish. On stock botom end i dont know.
Keep in mind that welding on the cylinder head will generally warp it. You will need to have a shop that knows what they're doing and can straighten the head after the welding has been done. The valve seats will also have to be replaced (they really should be removed before any welding is done), as the heat will cause them to come loose, so replacement is necessary. The more material you're adding, the higher the chances are that the head will warp a significant amount. The problem with the warpage are the cam journals. You can mill the bottom of the head flat, but the cam journals need to be align honed if you cannot straighten the head. All in all, doing this type of radical modification to the head can be more costly than building up the bottom end. A more economical and practical solution would be to have custom pistons made to fit the combustion chamber more effectively than the stock pistons.
That being said, I assume you're thinking of doing a clover leaf type design with the combustion chamber. Has there been any type of testing done to see if the clover leaf is a more efficient design? From what I have read/seen, I wouldn't think so, as the pieces of the clover leaf that are added to the combusion chamber would interfere with the flow cones of the valves, causing the valves to be more shrouded than they already are.
If you plan to deburr and smooth the contours of the combustion chamber, you'll loose a bit of combustion chamber volume, but you can make the volume up through milling and/or piston dome volume.
If you want to bump the compression 0.8 on an 87mm bore, you're looking at milling off 32 thousandths. It's possible, but you're really pushing the limits. I milled my head 25 thousandths, and I only have enough room to mill it one more time to freshen it up, and that's it. I suspect with 0.032 gone, you won't have any more room if you have to mill the head again (for what ever reason).
I think another problem you're going to have with milling that much material is squish. I'm going to run about 0.043 squish, and Larry recommends a minimum of 0.045 on stock rods (0.035 on aftermarket forged rods). With as much milling as you're planning to do, you might run into problems with too little squish (which means the pistons will hit the head at high RPMs).
Why would you bother with custom cams and a stock bottom end? Good NA cams will want a higher CR than 10.8, and some grinds will want more than 11.8 (when you go with Type S pistons).
With very aggressive cams and a lot of milling, the pistons will probably have to be modified in order to have enough clearance for the valves. Whether or not the bottom end can handle it, I don't think anyone knows. It sure won't handle higher than stock RPMs, as the stock rods will egg on the big end.
For all the effor this will take, I'd say just build the bottom end and do some nice NA pistons and cams, and you'll be set.
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