N/A build, Need advice, Ready to start. - Honda Prelude Forum

01ludenedd · 03-09-2011, 04:56 PM

So the engine bay in my car is starting to get a little empty taking my old motor out, and starting to get close to decision time on what I am going to do... I started a general thread in the 5th gen section, but have decided to do an N/A build for sure. First I started looking around for a good machine shop, and place to get it tuned.

I like The Old One in texas: The Old One - Energy Dynamics

And also AV Engineered out in NC: AV Tuning & Development

I have not found anyone decent with a lot of history in machining, building, or tuning these motors in FL.

So far I'm fairly sure I'm having someone doing the machining, me doing the assembly, then taking it to get a lot of tuning done. This will not be a rush to get it done ordeal, I have time, and the car in cozy in my garage. Just want it to get done right.

I have not gotten the head off the block yet, and I know whats an important step to see how good of shape the rings and cylinders are in (thats the reason I'm rebuilding in the first place... loosing 2qts every 1500 miles in blow by) but here is generally what I am thinking as far as the build goes:

machined block - if the cylinders aren't too bad, have them bored and honed to oversize specs, and use new type-s pistons from honda
IF they are bad, go sleeved, and new pistons, haven't picked a brand, but want to be in the 11.5:1cr area

machined head - full work over, port, polish, all new valve train

IM, injectors, and TB: I'm still debating over S2 or Euro R... S2 seems like a simpler install, and somewhere in the 66-68mm TB range, injectors maybe some RDX injectors or after market.

Headers and Exhaust - Tri-Y replica, modified to a 3" exhaust, don't know what cat or exhaust yet... preferably one that doesn't sound raspy and annoying (loved the exhaust note on my 350z for example)

NOW, upon browsing on good ole' ebay I found this motor:
Built NA H22 14.5:1 CR 90mm Ported Knifed Edged Crank - eBay (item 280637534021 end time Mar-07-11 18:56:55 PST)

It is pretty much everything I want, but I would have to order some new pistons from Arias to get the CR down, and try and sell those pistons (somehow) but all it needs internally is cams, and the balance shaft holes plugged. I have been talking to him all week, and wanting some input before I pull the trigger. I have heard of RS Machine, but not too familiar with them. The motor has never been put together, and has been sitting for a few years. I'm pretty stoked I came across it, and the price is reasonable, and I have an opportunity to drive up there and pick it up in a couple months.

Also, he is on PO as well, didn't get his user name, but his name is Zack. Gave him a link to this thread so maybe he will chime in.

I feel like this post is a little scattered, but let me know what you guys think. I got a lot of help and ideas from others in my other post:

H22a4 rebuild, best way to get 300whp?

01ludenedd · 03-13-2011, 09:10 AM

No one?... Where are all the GOOD H22 builders in here?

bouckarooo · 03-13-2011, 09:33 AM

Ok, "the old one" , and his company endynn are probably the best in the honda tuning world for building honda engines. I highly recomend you send you head to them for the work. As for you nottom end, well i maintain mike laskey and dan benson are the best that you can find for an h22.

As the setup you have, i would go with the type s IM, or possbily a golden eagle on. But if you have the cash, then call endynn and ask them to make you a custom one for your setup. It seem like you have all theparts and are just looking for someone to assemble them. In that case if it were me i would sent eh head and all the valvetrain components to Josh at endynn, and ten the bottome end stuff to mike lasky. If you have abottome end that is already sleeved, then you cn save osme money form getting mike to do it. As for other places, im sure there are good ones out there but myself personally, i would keep the work between those two guy. What engine managment systema re you running? Also, when you get it buitl and need a tune, talk to allmotorbb6, not sure where you are in the us but ebeef aside(he and i have beefed on a few occasions) i have read about him online and he seems to be a premier tuner.(see there you go allmotorbbr6, a PIERCE style olive branch). As for other tuning options im sure if you talk to Larry at endynn he can recomend some tuners if need be.

01ludenedd · 03-13-2011, 11:11 AM

Any thoughts on that motor listed there on ebay from RS Machine?

bouckarooo · 03-13-2011, 11:36 AM

yes i would stay clear of it, as the compression is so high that it will be a very difficult daily driver as not only will you require race fuel, (pump gas will never run as the detonation will kill the engine quickly) and also an engine like that is very high revving and will be very hard to drive at lower rpm and lower speeds. If your car is a race only kind of deal then for 3700 its a good price, however, i have no persanel experience with that particular machine shop so i, my self would be very hard pressed to buy it all built like that. Honeslty, i prefer to build my own stuff whenever and wherever i can, however, the turbo set up im in the middle of employed both mike lasky, dan benson, and the whole endynn crew. Larry at endynn is top of the racing world in experience(30 years plus of honda building) and Josh, well he is the head specialist at endynn. I have hard time telling any one to go anywhere else. I have read about others on here who have used that RS machine and have heard good things but since i have no experience with them i do not know for my self. What kind of engine managment are you going to use? what is the purpose of your build? what are the power goals and how do you intend on using this particular build?

01ludenedd · 03-13-2011, 11:49 AM

I plan on using Neptune, and this is going to be a daily or fairly often driven car. I have even toyed with the idea of doing a swap, but getting another used engine, and having to change sensor, ecu, and wiring stuff for a JDM or Euro-r swap makes me nervous. I'm good with mechanics, but not electronics, not my forte.

Goal was high when I started thinking about a motor build, but I wanted too much for the car then what I was really going to use it for. I want it to be in the 225whp range, and as reliable as possible.

bouckarooo · 03-13-2011, 12:16 PM

jdm swaps are easy to do int eh h22's, there are parts you have to switch over but if your good with a wrench then its no issue. If you need, i can offer advice on where to buy good used angine as well as swap it, i have done multiple jdm swaps on preludes, and nary have had an issue. The last jdm engine i bbought, i had issues with it after a year of hard hard diving and when i tore it down i found the sleeves were ****ed form day one, but aside from that i have had good luck wiht the jdm engines. one out of five or six isnt so bad.

01ludenedd · 03-13-2011, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bouckarooo

jdm swaps are easy to do int eh h22's, there are parts you have to switch over but if your good with a wrench then its no issue. If you need, i can offer advice on where to buy good used angine as well as swap it, i have done multiple jdm swaps on preludes, and nary have had an issue. The last jdm engine i bbought, i had issues with it after a year of hard hard diving and when i tore it down i found the sleeves were ****ed form day one, but aside from that i have had good luck wiht the jdm engines. one out of five or six isnt so bad.

From what I have read there is no OBD1 or OBD2 for JDM motors, but some sensors, distributor, etc have to be switched out from my motor... I found some for sale on HMotors but haven't seen anywhere else to get one. Is it worth the extra $$ to get a type-s or even the Accord Euro-R motor? I just don't want to get the one bad one, that's what bothers me...

bouckarooo · 03-14-2011, 01:51 PM

The accoord uero r swap is the bet one to get, make sure thouhg you are getting it with the lsd equipt transmission, the t2w4 is probably the greatest thing i ahve odn eto my lude when it comes to performance, it really brings out the rawness of the h22's. As for hmototrs online, i have never used them but knwo others who have and for the most part they are good; I personally use JDMSOURCE out of calgary alberta as the guy who runs it stands behind his engine picking skills and gives really good deasl on botht swaps and shipping.

Is you car an sh or base or se or what model is it?

01ludenedd · 03-14-2011, 02:53 PM

It's an 01' base model... And I agree on the lsd part, and the t2w4 transmission, I was comparing that and putting a quaife lsd in my M2Y4...

I am looking at the JDM Source site, and don't see the Accord Euro-r motor listed in there. Their prices are better, but I don't know how much more shipping would be coming from Canada, eh.

bouckarooo · 03-14-2011, 04:20 PM

Yes well the quiffe lsd is great lsd but the best feature of the t2w4 is the close gear ratio. The lsd is not quite as good as the lsd in the m2b4 however the t2w4 transmission is rebuildable whereas the m2b4 is not. Now the m2y4 is also a great transmission to install an aftermarket lsd into, however it is better suited for a turbo setup using its oem gears as they are a fair bit longer. If i was you i would call jdmsource and ask him about the ATR swap, as im sure he can get you one, just cuz its not on the website doesnt mean its not there. He also has h23vtec's that are never advertised. In the end buy your engine form wherever you like, but in my experienc i havnt had any issues with jdmsource. And not just for h22's, b20's, and f22's and a handful of other b series.

01ludenedd · 03-14-2011, 06:18 PM

Well I called up there and talked to Chad. They do carry the Accord Euro-r swap, but he said they don't have any in stock because they aren't that popular for the price... and I can't blame him. The t2w4 is a great tranny, but the LSD quality doesn't even compare to the Quaife, plus about $2400 more for the t2w4 and an extra 20hp. I can get a JDM H22a, a quaife diff, after market cams, and headers, for less than the Euro-r swap, and make just as much if not more power, and have the best LSD.

bouckarooo · 03-14-2011, 10:41 PM

yes, i agree the quiaffe is awesome however unless you are goin to install it yourself, there is going to be a large fee for someone else to do it. Like i said earlier the benefit to the t2w4 is the close gear ratio. I agree the price is high for the engine and trans swap in ATR fashion, in all honesty i always by just base h22's and then do work ont hem to make them more powerful. The added 20hp ont eh ATR and type s just isnt worht the extra 2000 bucks, for that much i cna build an engine that is the same or better.

MadTown · 03-19-2011, 12:51 AM

I also have an 01 base and I'm going for a N/A build. Nothing too crazy, but enough to eat boosted cars. Anyway, if you can get your hands on a euro intake manifold, they are the best intake manifold you can get for your car. Even better then skunk, etc.

Any idea how much those type S pistons are going to be?

01ludenedd · 05-16-2011, 03:15 PM

So after putting this off while I got married and some other things that took up my time/money, here is what I found on my 01' Prelude with 103k miles... that was using/consuming almost 2 quarts in 1500 miles. From my understanding a compression test will not ALWAYS show you this, we found this after a leak down test, which showed a 20psi pressure loss (@100psi) in this cylinder. This is a picture of the cylinder #4 (closest to the passenger side of the car), you can see in the last two pictures there are some horizontal "waves" in the cylinder... along with probably some bad rings, but haven't gotten that far yet.

The engine in my lude looks VERY good from under the valve cover, no sludge or burnt oil build up, even the rest of the cylinders looks pretty damn good for 100k miles.

SOOO... I am wondering if anyone knows of any machine shops in FL qualified, has the right equipment to bore and hone these since they cannot be taken out more than .020 over. I don't even know if it will fix the last cyclinder, but I'm sure they will be able to tell me once they get it in their hands.

If not, I'm going to send it to Endyn or AV Engineered in NC and have them do it, or sleeve it if it can't be repaired. Any help would be appreciated.

mortifiedvictim · 05-16-2011, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 01ludenedd

So after putting this off while I got married and some other things that took up my time/money

Congratulations on the marriage man.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 01ludenedd

SOOO... I am wondering if anyone knows of any machine shops in FL qualified, has the right equipment to bore and hone these since they cannot be taken out more than .020 over.

If you can't find any builder/tuner places around that know how to deal with frm you might have to find a porsche shop, they know about frm. I'm pretty sure you'll need to buy oversized pistons if you are going to bore. Maybe it can be fixed with just a hone and not need take significant material off.

If you do have to buy pistons you should hit up ebay for some type-s pistons to bump that compression up a bit.

01ludenedd · 05-16-2011, 09:16 PM

Thanks on the congrats...

I have heard about the Porsche shop idea, but I don't even know of one of those around.
And I would def like to go Type-s pistons, and I think i can get them new from Honda as well. My buddy works there as a Tech, so I am going to see if I can get them and what the cost is. It's hard to tell how bad these "waves" are, and what it will take to get it right. If all else fails and I have to sleeve, then it's going to be a longer build, because I am not stopping there... HA

Mike95lude · 05-19-2011, 05:52 PM

I've done Type-S pistons. If I could do it over again, I would do the Mahle Gold 11.5:1 Forged pistons in .25mm oversized bore. They are compatible with the FRM cylinders, so you just need to find a competent machine shop to bore/hone.

If you're willing to have it sleeved, definitely go to 89.0mm bore and I would get 12.0:1 pistons if you're going to be going with larger cams. Possibly even 12.5:1.

01ludenedd · 05-19-2011, 06:57 PM

Well right now I'm still on the hunt for a competent machine shop. So far Endyn is booked until September, and AV Engineering charges $85 to put together an estimate, which would be fine, but I don't want to pay $85 for an estimate that might be over-priced. Called around a couple local places today, not even close to a clue what FRM lining was... going to try searching in Tampa tomorrow.

As far as pistons go, if my buddy can get a good price as a Honda employee on a set of oem pistons, than I'll do that, unless the Mahle's are close in price. Also will do new rods as well, as I have been told: "H22 stock rods go out-of round easily. It's cheaper to buy Eagle rods that it is to re-bush the pin end, resize the big ends, and install new bolts in your stock rods."

So if anyone knows of any good machine shops capable in FL, PLEASE let me know, want to get my car back together.

nvroutgund · 07-10-2011, 08:48 PM

I live in Jacksonville, you should check out a company called Dover. They do head/block machine work.

Rebuilt Cylinder Heads - Stock and High Performance