eh. for 3k bucks you can get a good header. nice exhaust set up. maybe an intake and a tune. that would be the best you can do for 3k
ARE YOU SERIOUS??? 1k will get you a custom exhaust, and top of the line header. Another G will get you a port an polish, the last G will build your head, assuming your doing the building yourself. You can custom make an intake for under a bill. an a tune is no more than 3 bills. So glad people can add up money so easiliy
Obviously, (thanks to capitalizm) "builds on a budget" are going to vary. Main thing here i think is to throw out what CAN be done on a "general" budget right?
ARE YOU SERIOUS??? 1k will get you a custom exhaust, and top of the line header. Another G will get you a port an polish, the last G will build your head, assuming your doing the building yourself. You can custom make an intake for under a bill. an a tune is no more than 3 bills. So glad people can add up money so easiliy
Most people will probably disagree with this statement. Yes, you can probably get a custom exhaust put together and welded up and fully installed including a high flow catalyitic converter for about $500-600. But, if you are talking about a "top of the line header", then the three that come to mind for me are Mugen, SMSP, and Hytech. All of these run over $1000 for the header itself.....if you can even get one.
As for the rest of this discussion, I did a rebuild on my motor about a year and a half ago. The place I had the machine work and assembly done didn't do a perfect job. I removed the engine and reinstalled it myself. I already had Type S pistons and cams laying around which I spent about $600 on.
The rebuild included new seals and gaskets, valve job, cylinder hone, and assembly. I reused all the factory valvetrain and piston connecting rods. The cams and pistons were swapped out with the Type S units. This clean, diagnose, and rebuild all cost me right at $1000. And that was one of the cheaper places where I live. The other machine shop wanted to replace all the rocker arms - which I didn't think was necessary because of the low miles on my car. That would add nearly another $1000 in parts alone.
You will probably also want to go ahead and change out your timing belt, accessory belts, and water pump while you have it take apart. This is going to run about another $200 in parts.
So I would say a grand total of $1800 min for a rebuild like this would be a reasonable estimate. Remember that this includes already having all the tools and knowledge necessary to do the labor (minus the engine machine work and assembly) by yourself. If you wanted to use any different parts within the engine (i.e. valve springs, retainers, etc) just add the cost of said parts on to this total and the labor should be the same. The main cost in upgrading pistons would be sleeving - if you don't use pistons that can be installed in the factory sleeves. Good luck with the rebuild.
here is what i've learned in the past 3 days and talking to a machine shop
H22A4 are FRM (Fiber Reinforced Metal) sleeves, use mahle gold pistions or stock pistons (oversize if needed) and some eagle rods or something comparable
if you re-sleeve use regular forged pistons to match.
i read somewhere that the FRM sleeves expand and contract as they heat and cool and that's the reason for using the mahle golds or stock pistons. anyone have more in site on this? possibly why honing it is so delicate, improper heating of the metal and/or not using the correct material for the process?
i'm going to try the honing of the FRM sleeves and using the mahle golds. i feel the local machine shop understands the process, he's the one that mentioned it to me... we'll see how it goes
Edit:thread necro...
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'99 5-speed H22A4
Mods on the car so far:
Vafc/I/H/E/P/Test pipe/O2 sim (cuz the O2 sim is hax, gotta mention the hax)
mahle gold 10.1 pistons
eagle rods
preparing for a little boost.
ThreadNecro would make a great troll SN for someone that goes around reviving dead threads.... Gives me naughty ideas.
On topic, FRM doesn't play with forged internals because they don't heat up at the same rate. I think the piston rings expand faster than the walls and cause scoring. So ya, that's why you've got to stay stock, type s, or mahle. Mahle has some kind of special coating on them so they play well with FRM but in serious boost applications that coating wears fast and the pistons don't last.
When it comes to honing, I've heard shops that do Porche engines know how to treat FRM so keep that in mind for options of where to bring the engine. If it is done wrong the results can be catastrophic, so make sure the shop knows whats up.
have the engine and internals cleaned
rering current pistons
new bearings
Skunk2 Tuner 2 cams
Skunk2 Tuner valvetrain
stock cam gears
SMSP, Hytech, SSR header
Neptune RTP
obd1 h22 injectors
If you want to up your budget a little more, add a euroR intake manifold.
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Blake - Neptune Tuner/Dealer
ALL MOTOR big body honda that will eat your lunch
ARE YOU SERIOUS??? 1k will get you a custom exhaust, and top of the line header. Another G will get you a port an polish, the last G will build your head, assuming your doing the building yourself. You can custom make an intake for under a bill. an a tune is no more than 3 bills. So glad people can add up money so easiliy
300 dollars for a tune is most likely by a freeware software like crome. Not by a software that truly works and isnt passed around to online "tuners".
having the head ported with a valve job isnt something that is going to be cost effective for him as the stock head already flows decent enough. You are going to need more than 1000 if you plan on using new parts. Just IMO, used internal parts like camshafts and valvetrain are a little scary. You never know how they were treated, if they were previously installed correctly.
1000 for a custom exhaust and top of the line header huh? where have you been shopping?
I'm building my header myself and im still looking at spending 600 dollars (NICE merge collectors are not cheap)
attempting at rebuilding a motor and add performance parts on little to no budget is just asking for a motor that makes poor power.
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Blake - Neptune Tuner/Dealer
ALL MOTOR big body honda that will eat your lunch
In the end you are gonna have to resleeve the engine, or find a mahcine shop who has the stones and the skill the hone the frm sleeves. You cant just "re ring" the pistons and put them back in, there is a process that needs to be done so the rings will seat. As for the head work and the rest of you build well, it seems you are intent on building the engine on the cheap. Be cautious.
In the end you are gonna have to resleeve the engine, or find a mahcine shop who has the stones and the skill the hone the frm sleeves. You cant just "re ring" the pistons and put them back in, there is a process that needs to be done so the rings will seat. As for the head work and the rest of you build well, it seems you are intent on building the engine on the cheap. Be cautious.
as long as the cylinder walls were still in good condition you technically do not have to rehone them.
All S2000 and 1990 and later VTEC and SI Preludes have Fiber-Reinforced Metal (FRM) cylinder liners. FRM honing is not required unless the cylinder has deep vertical scratches that run the length of the bore. Cylinders with light colored spots or flaking cannot be corrected by honing and must be replaced.
To hone FRM liners, perform the following:
· Use a rigid hone (not a ball hone) with GC-600-J or finer stones for nonferrous
metals. The honing pressure should be 200-300 kPa (2-3 kg-cm2, 29-43 psi).
· Use an oil type honing oil.
· Hone at 45-50 rpm to a 60 degree-crosshatch pattern.
· Do not stroke the hone more than 20 cycles.
· After honing, thoroughly clean the engine block of all metal particles by
washing with hot soapy water, then dry and oil them immediately. Never use
solvent; it will only redistribute the grit.
· Some light vertical scoring and scratching is acceptable if it isn’t deep enough
to catch your fingernail, and doesn’t run the full length of the bore.
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straight from honda service bulletin.
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Blake - Neptune Tuner/Dealer
ALL MOTOR big body honda that will eat your lunch
^I love the bold letters.....lmao...you are such a tool.....like i said before in the end you are either gonna need to resleeve or hone, odds that your sleeves are going to be pristine enough to not require any attention are slim, i have built many an engine and have yet to see any h22 that didnt require sleeve work, i will say that the 2 f20c engines i worked on didnt require anything but a hone, although the sleevs were replaced anyway. I still dont see any point in trying to build an h22 on the sly with no cash. If you are spending the effort to rebuild you might as well put some parts into it. Especially if you are looking for naturally aspirated power.
To each their own i guess......
Last edited by bouckarooo; 11-21-2010 at 12:28 PM.
thats funny. I have 3 spare blocks in my garage with perfect cylinder walls. One being my 85k mile h22a which has 20-30 8500 rpm track passes, 200+ 8500rpm dyno runs, and plenty of good ole street racing. Cylinder walls....perfect. I made a list based on his budget. Most of the times, you wont find someone local to hone FRM which means you have to spend a lot of money in shipping + the labor to have it honed correctly. Based on his budget and the amount of money he is wanting to spend, getting the cylinders rehoned is not necessarily if the walls are not scarred or showing wear.
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Blake - Neptune Tuner/Dealer
ALL MOTOR big body honda that will eat your lunch
I am surpised to hear you have frm h22's w/ good cylinders; on multiple occasions i have tore down h22's for rebuild and have found honeycomb scoring and chunking off the cylinders. It is interesting as the h22's were among the first honda engines to have frm(the nsx being the only one prior) and they had the highest cylinder failure rate, when i did the s2k blocks they were in great shape. I am sure the cylinder condition depends not only on miles, but also years made and style of driving as well as maintenance. For the most part when i need to get an h22 for a rebuild i seek out people who are swapping out the h22a4(prefferably from 99+) for the h22a. Nothing wrong with the h22a's but as i am sure you knwo the open deck is better for cooling and less prones to cylinder distortion. Anyway, i understand where you are going with you advice however as i am sure you know(as i have seen your thread and dyuno posting) natural aspiration costs allot more and is a higher duty than a stocker rebuild. If the OP is going for performance then he shouldnt be told to do it cheaply. Also, every one who pitched in advice forgot to mention the assembly balancing; which isnt cheap and is definetly somethign that needs to be done before reassembly.
I'l be following this thread, I'd like to see what you come out with in the end. I am planning something along the same lines, take my time, find deals along the way. I have to say that I am definitely getting mine sleeved, but only because I might go FI later. Other than that we have the same thoughts. Labor is going to save you the most, but if you have to go over budget to get the machining, balancing, etc done right... do it, it's better done right the first time then having to re-do it.
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01' Prelude Base, a work in progress
11' Kia Soul... "you can get with this, or u can get with that!"
05' CBR 1000... too many mods to list, and a lot of blood sweat and tears, only for the track and mountain rides
What roughly is the machine shop going to cost i am about to rebulid my lude as well myself so labor is free but on the same kind of budget i would like to do type s pistons and eagle rods but i have yet to see my cylinder walls so any advice on where to buy these goods and spme hidden costs would be great thanks
What roughly is the machine shop going to cost i am about to rebulid my lude as well myself so labor is free but on the same kind of budget i would like to do type s pistons and eagle rods but i have yet to see my cylinder walls so any advice on where to buy these goods and spme hidden costs would be great thanks
If your breaking your engine down, i would recommend getting new sleeves, but that is just me. My engine build is done, and based on my budget i just had to do everything stock, crank, rods, pistons, rings, gasket set, three angle on the head, P&P, new springs retainers, and rocker arms resurfaced. some hidden cost (depending on the mileage of your motor) i replaced the oil pump, water pump, new timming belt, oil strainer, hoses... etc. Also, alot of the parts i cleaned and painted for looks, the oil pan i cleaned and painted black. The IM i cleaned thouroghly, TB, FITV, IACV, all the brackets i cleaned and painted black, all the hoses i replaced. For the suspension, i had to keep it stock (budget), i just replaced the ball joints, axle seals, and tie rods.
The car is running real nice. As soon as i can get more money together, i will probably put it towards a nice header and exhaust system, a hondata system, an intake system, and get a good tune.
I recently acquired a h22a1 motor which i will slowly rebuild n/a high compression with after market internals now that i have a little more knowledge of the cost and time envolved in an engine rebuild.
do research on a good local race/machine shop for prices. stuff adds up pretty fast so just watch where and how you use your money.
Well i have a new water pump and belts and allthe gaskets except the head and valve seals and stuff but my car has 180 on it its a 2001 and the reason i am rebuilding is because all my oil dumped out from the cooler because of that damn 4$ seal in there and now i think i have a rod knock. So i wasnt to do the bottom end like i said i work for Pfaff which deal with audi and porsche which porsche has the same type of cylinder walls as us so i am trying to find out our machinist and the cost. So saying that i would like to upgrade while i build so i guess time will tell when i take iot all apart but alone what did your machine shop charge you
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