Hey guys, just to give you a little background, over the summer we dropped an H23 VTEC into my car. And damn if it wasn't a powerful engine. Anyways there are many many mods on the engine:
Without cam gear tuning, the engine put out 203whp and 160tq. With all the lightening and balancing that was done the car accelerated so fast! Everything about the car was great...great torque, great sound, no complaints. Then....
At 11,000kms or so...it looks like the crank may be done. I won't know until the engine gets into the builder in a month...but it doesn't matter. I am already suspicious the problem is the crank and connecting rods. Basically I think the engine was plain revving too high givien the engine geometry. So I recommend to you H23 VTEC people to watch how high you rev the engine, no matter how lightened and balanced it is...but I do think that if I had aftermarket rods this may not have happened...anyways.
I started contemplating my options...If I stay N/A I will keep the Arias pistons. I am buying aftermarket rods. So the main decision here is regarding the crank. If I go with the H23 again I have the 1.49 RSR and I would not rev the engine as high as before, 7500 max.
But..I could go with an H22 crank and a custom rod, but I mean that's the same old deal...1.58 RSR and better rev capabilities...longer life....
But.....then I got into reading the discussions around the F20B crank. I will do more research on fitment, but I do believe this to be plug and play into the H22/H23 block. Now let's crunch some numbers:
A stock F20B has a 85mm bore and 88mm stroke. My sleeves are 87mm bore. My current setup had a 141.925 mm H23A rod and a 95mm stroke. So that's 189.425mm (corrected by Forbidden) to play with in total rod length and stroke. Given I keep my pistons and were to put in an F20B crank at 88mm, I need a custom rod of 145.425mm to make proper height at TDC. Look at these numbers:
This setup would yeild a displacement of 2.1L and a rod/stroke ratio of 1.69. If optimal is 1.72 this looks like a great setup! If any of my math is wrong let me know...but intuitively this looks like an amazing N/A setup. Please comment on my theory here, cause if it looks good, I will try it. I'd much rather have a more reliable engine at 2.1L than the risks with the 2.3L.
Re: F20B Crank Revisited: The ultimate H22a? (long)
Quote:
Originally posted by Satan_SRV
At 11,000kms or so...it looks like the crank may be done. I won't know until the engine gets into the builder in a month...but it doesn't matter. I am already suspicious the problem is the crank and connecting rods. Basically I think the engine was plain revving too high givien the engine geometry. So I recommend to you H23 VTEC people to watch how high you rev the engine, no matter how lightened and balanced it is...but I do think that if I had aftermarket rods this may not have happened...anyways.
Let us know what really happened when you know
Quote:
I started contemplating my options...If I stay N/A I will keep the Arias pistons. I am buying aftermarket rods. So the main decision here is regarding the crank. If I go with the H23 again I have the 1.49 RSR and I would not rev the engine as high as before, 7500 max.
But..I could go with an H22 crank and a custom rod, but I mean that's the same old deal...1.58 RSR and better rev capabilities...longer life....
But.....then I got into reading the discussions around the F20B crank. I will do more research on fitment, but I do believe this to be plug and play into the H22/H23 block. Now let's crunch some numbers:
A stock F20B has a 85mm bore and 88mm stroke. My sleeves are 87mm bore. My current setup had a 141.925 mm H23A rod and a 95mm stroke. So that's 236.925mm to play with in total rod length and stroke. Given I keep my pistons and were to put in an F20B crank at 88mm, I need a custom rod of 148.925mm to make proper height at TDC. Look at these numbers:
Here your math is wrong... the stroke is actually how much the pistons travels in the cyl. So if you have 141.925 rods and a 95 stroke you have 189.425mm to play with so if you were to put a 88mm crank your rod would need to be 145.425mm
This setup would yeild a displacement of 2.1L and a rod/stroke ratio of 1.69. If optimal is 1.72 this looks like a great setup! If any of my math is wrong let me know...but intuitively this looks like an amazing N/A setup. Please comment on my theory here, cause if it looks good, I will try it. I'd much rather have a more reliable engine at 2.1L than the risks with the 2.3L.
I made a thread a while ago about this R/S stuff and calculated a few different stroke and rod length, the subject was "Rod length" do a search for that and you'll find it
Thanks for correcting the math...I figured something would be off...so stroke/2 is the length the crank contributes? Okay I have edited to original thread.
Okay so that still gives a RS/R of 1.65 and a 2.1L engine. Sounds good to me!
i have seen in a mag, i forgot which, it was superstreet i believe. It was an acticle on a japanese company, and one of ther pic was a h22 engine, with the caption, a h22 destocke to a 2.0L and putting out close to 250 hp the number seem fishie( i could be wrong ont he number) but damn if a h22 destrock to a 2.0L can make that power... and still have a higher redline... omg.
o yea the engine was for a track car
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damm you.. i almost had visions of f20b cranks out of my mind.. thanks alot.. i dont know it might be better to just get custom pitons and rods closest to a better r/s as much as possible.. slow.. dude your sleeved.. for a second i was hardcore all motor warrior then got to thinking.. 15 psi on a sleeved h22.. man.. DUDE.. you go from owning ITRS and s2k's to running with 911's and c5's.. i dont know yet.. im kinda up in the air hahah
I say you're wasting your time with an F20B crank. If for no other reason, you will have a hard time getting one, spend a lot of money, and I have yet to see it done. Considering the H22 even has different size journals over the years, I'm not sure I'd trust the F20 to be the same.
Your best bet would be to go for an H22 with custom pistons and rods, moving the ringpack further up on the piston. Maybe S2k pistons. Probably as cheap as what you want with the F20B and it can be to your specs. You won't be able to go beyond maybe 1.6 or 1.65 on the r/s, but that's still pretty good. Seeing as how well the H22 holds up, improving on it while lightening and balancing should be OK.
Why do you think your crank/bearings/rods would be "done?" Running the factory crank pulley, or no? Who did the bottom end work? Not properly clearancing the bottom end could cause problems.
Originally posted by marcucci Your best bet would be to go for an H22 with custom pistons and rods, moving the ringpack further up on the piston. Maybe S2k pistons. Probably as cheap as what you want with the F20B and it can be to your specs. You won't be able to go beyond maybe 1.6 or 1.65 on the r/s, but that's still pretty good. Seeing as how well the H22 holds up, improving on it while lightening and balancing should be OK.
Why do you think your crank/bearings/rods would be "done?" Running the factory crank pulley, or no? Who did the bottom end work? Not properly clearancing the bottom end could cause problems.
At that rate I would just go with an H22 crank...it's just not worth the hassle.
A lot of time was spent on the bottom end, on the bearings and everything....so we don't know unitl we get it hacked open. Let's just say you know you have a problem when you have about a 1/4 inch of play in the crank! Maybe it's just the crank bearing failing. But I'm just fearing the worst.
Satan, if you have 1/4" of play on the crank, I can pretty much guarantee that your entire motor is toast. To wear out that much of the bearings your entire motor would be full of shrapnel. I'd have to look at the block I have again, but I don't think the bearings could spin and walk out, they would have to disintegrate. There are a bunch, too, soo...
Originally posted by marcucci Satan, if you have 1/4" of play on the crank, I can pretty much guarantee that your entire motor is toast. To wear out that much of the bearings your entire motor would be full of shrapnel. I'd have to look at the block I have again, but I don't think the bearings could spin and walk out, they would have to disintegrate. There are a bunch, too, soo...
Sure that it's not the crank pulley/bolt?
Regardless... good luck...
I haven't even looked at the motor...so I'm really unsure at this point. It made noise for a week (which I thought was engine mount or header) and then stopped on my way to get it checked out. Sharpnel? Booooooo!!!
so when are you gonna open up your 2.3vtec? i'd really like to know what's going on. i dont think i'll have too much of a problem like that. i haven't even raced this motor. i've dipped into the red...but not long at all and hardly ever. i daily drive every day. she may get pushed under 5k but thats the bulk of it.
so are you selling any parts other than the ecm? and who built your motor, and you never got back to me about how they got the oil jets to fit.
v
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the number seem fishie( i could be wrong ont he number) but damn if a h22 destrock to a 2.0L can make that power... and still have a higher redline... omg.
Probably not worth it without like a 90mm bore, though.
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