FInally numbers for you guys and gals. Please make this a sticky.
All prices are retail of course.
$400 Both Cams
$333 Springs and Retainers
Stage 1= 12hp gain, stock spirngs ok
Stage 2= 12-18 hp gain, need springs and retainers
Stage 3= 18+ hp gain, rough idle
18 ponies is a pretty high number for cams in our engines. I dunno.... I do want them though. Anyone think I could pass emissions with the stage 3s? okay, seriously though if I get the springs and retainers they would still be compatable with the stock cams when I have to go to the sniffer right?
Brian Crower said that 12-18 is at the wheels. They also tested the cams out thouroughly. Basically, the cams are about the same as the non-Vtec Integra cams.
Bill: Just for clarification. You mentioned "rough idle" on Stage 3. Does it mean that idle still will be smooth if we go with either Stage 1 or 2?
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'92 Si, Milano Red, >200K miles (Original front brakes)
AEM CAI, DC Headers, Greddy SP Cat-back Exhaust, MSD 8.5 mm Spark Wires, 4bidden Short Shifter, Neuspeed FSTB
17" ADR Skye7 Wheels, 215/40/17 Ventus H II Tires
Pioneer DEH-1500 Head Unit, Kicker 10" Subwoofer, Sony DCX-4120 Amplifier
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'03 Honda Pilot EX-L, Silver
'03 Acura 3.2 TL Type S, Silver
Stage 1 is fine with stock springs and retainers, and stage 2 is ok for idle if you do springs and retainers with it. Stage 3 is a lopey ilde, and recommended for race only.
^ With higher compression pistons and cams, an H23 will, theorhetically, make the same power as and H22. VTEC makes a smooth idle with big cam power up top. HOWEVER, making the same peak power, the H23 will be slightly quicker do to it's slightly larger displacement, giving a better, flatter torque curve. And more reliable? Come on now Jeremy, that's a lame comment. The aftermarket support I can't disagree with though, the H23 currently has NO quality header available.
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Gone, but not forgotten...rest in peace Jon.
just called crower... and talked to brian crower..
h23 cams stage 2 are ready to be shipped. 2-3 days to make upon demand. thinking of stage 2 cams.. need to talkl to him again and get specs of intake and exhaust cam specs. I believe i might be the guinea pig on this one... things i'm prolly gonna get
- Stage 2 H23 cams
- SAFC II
- Crower retainers and springs
- AEM Cam sprockets
What do u guys recommend anything else? my shop mechanic recommends to replace the valves as well 4 bucks each for 16 valves...
Duration at .050"
============
Int - 216
Exh - 224
Gross Lift
========
Int - .440 mid
Exh - .430 mid
power band starts around 2500 RPM. This is direct from Brian Crower himself. Stage 2 is not stock idle.. u can tell there is an aftermarket cam in there.. but u get high gains in the top end.. i guess a tradeoff b/w stage 1 and 2. DAMNN dunno what i should go for.. stage 1 or 2.. what u guys think?? uggghh!!!
Originally posted by AlexLude got some specs.. Stage 2 h23 cams
Duration at .050"
============
Int - 216
Exh - 224
Gross Lift
========
Int - .440 mid
Exh - .430 mid
power band starts around 2500 RPM. This is direct from Brian Crower himself. Stage 2 is not stock idle.. u can tell there is an aftermarket cam in there.. but u get high gains in the top end.. i guess a tradeoff b/w stage 1 and 2. DAMNN dunno what i should go for.. stage 1 or 2.. what u guys think?? uggghh!!!
Read my previous post
Quote:
Originally posted by Satan_SRV
[B]My main complaint about going for an aggressive H23 cam would be driveability. VTEC kids have the advantage of an idle lobe to avoid idle issues and such and conserve what little torque there is. The H23 cam better be designed with a wide powerband, becuase if it doesn't pick up till 3000rpms it will really suck cause you have no idle lobe to keep things kosher
Just to give you some perspective my stage 3's have the folowing specs on the Primary and Secondary [b]non-vtec lobes:
-----------Pri-----Sec
Lift IN - .267 -- .365
Lift EX - .255 -- .354
Dur IN -- 262 --- 267
Dur EX -- 254 --- 269
At those specs I'm running an 1000-1100 rpm ilde and it still stalls once in a blue moon b/c of my lightened flywheel when I put in the clutch and it falls from a higher rpm.
Here's a comparison of your H23 cams vs. my non-vtec secondary lobes.
Dur .5 IN --- 216 ------ 216 ------ 263
Dur .5 EX --- 224 ------ 210 ------ 255
so it's a high lift cam, close to vtec specs...but has the duration of the stock h22 non-vtec lobes...that's a lot of lift. When he says powerband starts at 2500 he really means it 0-2500 the car will not be very driveable. but it will make a lot of high end power
Looks like I will be ordering a set of Stage 2 cams this week.. anyone willing to help me out with funds to dyno the before h23 and then after it is dyno tuned with the SAFC?? since i'm the guinea pig.. i remember people talking about helping out with some dyno runs before and after. (well if u help me out with the before) i'll take care of the dyno-tuning.
- So Donations anyone???
Currently its an H23 with 90k miles with:
- AEM intake
- DC sports CC header
- GReddy SP Exhaust
never dyno'ed before... then soon to get
- Crower H23 cams
- Crower Retainers and Springs
- Apex'i SAFC II (black)
- a few tuners (personal mechanic, prostreetonline, super autobacs in socal) said not worth the dyno time and price tag to get AEM cam gears because the issue of having the gap between the piston and the cam already. They say stick to OEM cam gears as the aftermarket ones may cause more problems than gains.
Originally posted by i3luemrld well earlier in this post i said i was gonna get a set too so yea, there are a few of us Guinea pigs. Sorry to sound like a newb but what do you mean by "drive-ability"?
Well, if the stage two's can't offer you "stock idle", and power is in fact void until around 2500 RPM, on a daily basis that's no fun at all. The idle alone might unnerve some people, so as far as daily driver goes, he's looking for the best gains paired with the best driveability .... did I get that right?
naww.. he didnt mean that in fact the cams are void until 2500.. he meant more gains noticeable from 2500 on up (like the dyno curve) obviously.. the power will be more above 1k RPM...
btw, Shieet man.. I'm the first to buy these cams??!! I just ordered a set from Crower today. Good price for one of the first H23 cams /springs and retainers. Should get them in a week so i'll show u guys when i get 'em... Brian Crower said the performance of these cams are VERRY similar to the behavior of B series LS engines.
hell yeah... stage 2 was their most popular setup on the LS bseries engine and if he said u want the retainers/springs.. just go with the stage 2. not like stock, but not bad either... my friend has stage 2 in his Bseries and its not too too bad.. wish me luck on these cams guys...
He was like you're the first to put in an order.. they've been dyno'ed and w/no tuning gave 14hp gains... we'll have to see...
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okay, seriously though if I get the springs and retainers they would still be compatable with the stock cams when I have to go to the sniffer right?
since i'm the guinea pig.. i remember people talking about helping out with some dyno runs before and after. (well if u help me out with the before) i'll take care of the dyno-tuning. 
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