building bottom end - Honda Prelude Forum

cuseC08 · 02-09-2004, 11:53 PM

so i'm pullin my motor out in a few days. got the h22A4 (2001 prelude). i haven't decided what type of pistons to put in, but i'm sleevin the block, and puttin 10/1 compression pistons with rods. also havin the tranny rebuilt by a friend of mine. my main question is what do you guys recommenc for sleeves and pistons/ rods? i was thinkin je pistons with crower rods. no clue what sleeves to use. i don't wanna get bigger sleeves to raise my displacement. i wanna just stick with the 2.2 liter. also have a directport kit 75shot of NX. i figure to stay smart and safe i'll stay with stock compression. only reason i ain't goin turbo is cuz i'm tired of spending money on this car and i just wanna get it runnin right. it's leakin 14% outta cyl 2. that's why i'm rebuilding. aight so lemme know guys. sorry for the long post. thanks

cuseC08 · 02-13-2004, 03:26 PM

small change of plans... we're gonna go with 11:1 pistons. only thing is i haven't found them yet. je has 11.5:1. hopefully i can get some custom ones made. anyone have any ideas? also anyone know of a strong crankshaft for the h22??

nuro · 02-13-2004, 05:49 PM

11.5:1 should be fine if you run 93 octane. especially with good tuning.

you can stick with the stock crank, its strong enough for whatever you'll need. People running boosted H22's dont bother changing it.

there are a bunch of sleeves out there. GE, Darton, AEBS,... There isnt enough trial-and-error info out there on the h22 specifically to know which to go with. On top of that, when errors do happen it is very likely due to a bad install, not the sleeve itself.

Artifex · 02-13-2004, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cuseC08
i don't wanna get bigger sleeves to raise my displacement. i wanna just stick with the 2.2 liter. also have a directport kit 75shot of NX. i figure to stay smart and safe i'll stay with stock compression. only reason i ain't goin turbo is cuz i'm tired of spending money on this car and i just wanna get it runnin right. it's leakin 14% outta cyl 2. that's why i'm rebuilding. aight so lemme know guys. sorry for the long post. thanks

First, you should find out what is causing the leak. If you are sleeving for that reason, then it may still be leaking when you are done. Your next course of action should be a leakdown test.

If you are trying to save money, then you should look into just swapping in a JDM motor. That would be cheaper than sleeving with new pistons and rods, and get you a little bump in power too. Actually, it would be cheaper still if you sold off your shortblock after the swap.

WTF are you not increasing displacement when sleeving? It is free, and you should take it if possible. The bores can safely increase by 1 mm, and 2 mm if you are careful. I know many people running 89mm bores without any issues. I am hoping Joel can chime in here, because I am pretty sure he runs 89mm also.

You should definitely increase compression. If you run Endyn rollerwaves, you can run 11:1 without issues on 91 octane. Do a search over on the Endyn BBS to hear Larry's explanation. He has off-the shelf pistons that should serve exactly what you need. They aren't really expensive either.

Do what you want, but I think most people in the NA forum will agree to take the opportunity to mod the engine while you have the chance.

cuseC08 · 02-14-2004, 08:41 AM

k well i wasn't gonna raise the displacement because i wasn't too sure of what kinda problems i'd run into later with tuning and such, and i'm so sick an tired of screwing with this motor. It's just been a neverending project and everytime i get done with something i need to do something else. I kinda wish i never got that jg head just because i feel like i'm probably losing power with all the porting on it. but maybe raising the displacement is a good idea. what are the actual pros and cons with raising the displacement? can i still rev as high? what kinda problems will i possiblily run into? how much power gain would that be worth? i just figure i'll rebuild my whole motor to be very strong and keep everything stock size just so when we put it back together the motor runs as smooth as possible. I am driving this thing on the street and it's basically my daily driver besides my work truck.

cuseC08 · 02-14-2004, 09:37 AM

one more thing... you guys think i should sell the 310 cc injectors and go alittle bigger? cuz if i do raise the displacement alittle and plus i'm raising my compression. i'm thinkin that the 310's aren't gonna be enough... but i really am not too sure. i just don't wanna get to the dyno and the guy be like oh man it's not gettin enough fuel.

VTLude · 02-14-2004, 04:14 PM

I think it depends on if you just want a good running strong engine or you want to really mod it for performance.

I think I'm with what Artifex had said, because, the cheapest thing to do would be to go get a JDM h22, and swap it in.

I was in a similar position as you 6 months ago, when I spun a rod bearing on my 3rd piston and possibly some other things. I thought by the time I was done buying new pistons, sleves, rods , etc, plus labor, I'd be at least 4-5k in the hole. Then I saw JDM h22's going for $1100-1200 with under 40k miles, that are definetly going to be more reliable then a rebuilt motor. I thought it was a no brainer.

But if you are in it for performance, want a strong bottom end for NX, and dont mind spending the dough, then go for it. I would've if I had some mo' loot. But I'm poor. And the added power from the JDM is preeetty sweet. If you just want a strong/reliable motor for cheap, check out the JDM h22's on hmotorsonline.com.

just my .02

-Mike

cuseC08 · 02-15-2004, 11:49 PM

i'm goin for the stong bottom end that can crank some good power out and work good with the nx.

cuseC08 · 02-19-2004, 12:21 PM

ok ijust talked to the guy at the machine shop. He told me that the install on darton sleeves would require alot of cnc work to the block. told me that it would be like 800 - 900 dollars just for the install. So he reccomended that i looked into other companys for sleeves and see if there were any others that didn't require so much work just for the install. Anyone got any ideas? or advice? thanks a lot guys

MugenPoweredLude · 02-19-2004, 02:18 PM

well you can try Golden Eagle Sleeves, they also build the engine for you

but $8-900 sounds about right

Satan_SRV · 02-19-2004, 02:55 PM

All aftermarket sleeves will require a line bore etc. etc..

cuseC08 · 02-20-2004, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MugenPoweredLude
well you can try Golden Eagle Sleeves, they also build the engine for you

but $8-900 sounds about right

yeah i heard from someone to try golden eagle. What is their website??? i tried www.goldeneagle.com but that wasn't it.
damn for the money i'm gonna spend on the sleeves and install i might as well buy a whole new block with sleeves in it already. sheesh.

bdb · 02-20-2004, 07:27 AM

http://www.goldeneaglemfg.com/

cuseC08 · 02-21-2004, 11:39 AM

k good news... i talked to the machine guy and the guy at race engineering and they both reccomended that i went with the flanged sleeve kit made by darton. 190 for the kit.... way cheaper install. not as strong but i'm only doing a 100 shot i think and the guy told me that the sleeves are good for 200 shot of nitrous with 11:1 comp. pistons. so it should be just fine. gonna bore them to 88mm. i felt that 89 would be alittle too risky for durability.

nuro · 02-21-2004, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cuseC08
k good news... i talked to the machine guy and the guy at race engineering and they both reccomended that i went with the flanged sleeve kit made by darton. 190 for the kit.... way cheaper install. not as strong but i'm only doing a 100 shot i think and the guy told me that the sleeves are good for 200 shot of nitrous with 11:1 comp. pistons. so it should be just fine. gonna bore them to 88mm. i felt that 89 would be alittle too risky for durability.

what are his reasons for recommending darton over GE?

IMO , any flanged or closed deck conversion sleeve will be good for you. as the shots get higher and higher, you won't be worrying about the sleeves, but other components.

71dsp · 02-21-2004, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Satan_SRV
All aftermarket sleeves will require a line bore etc. etc..

Are you sure all aftermarket sleeves require an align hone/bore?

The problem is that you cannot remove much material with an align hone/bore on an H22 because the oil pump is driven off of the crank snout.

There's two sides of the debate, and so far I haven't seen anyone that has concrete evidence to back up either side.

I don't think anyone really knows what causes the block to warp (assuming that it warps in the first place) when the stock sleeves are machined or when aftermarket sleeves are installed. Now, I can understand how some aftermarket sleeves can warp the block since the sleeves are pressed in with a hydraulic press. However, I don't think anyone has actually ever measured the amount of warpage.

I have been told by numerous machinists that replacement sleeve liners won't warp the block when installed correctly, and the same goes for the new Dart MID sleeves, as they are not pressed in (from what I've seen). However, Larry and others say that an align hone should be done with any aftermarket sleeve install, so who the hell knows?!

I'd be inclined to try to actually measure the warp on the bearing saddles before an align hone is done just to see if the warpage can be measured.

The problem I see is that if you align hone too much material, you won't be able to fully seat the crank bearings which could cause all kinds of problems.

71dsp · 02-21-2004, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nuro
what are his reasons for recommending darton over GE?

IMO , any flanged or closed deck conversion sleeve will be good for you. as the shots get higher and higher, you won't be worrying about the sleeves, but other components.

From the price quote, I'm assuming that he is referring to Darton ductile iron replacement sleeves. These are NOT full sleeves like Darton MID, Golden Eagle, et. al. sleeves. These are sleeve liners that are installed in the stock sleeves (after the sleeves are machined, obviously). The price quotes I received from replacement sleeves was about $500 for the sleeves with installation.

These sleeves are not as strong as full replacement sleeves, as the aluminum stock sleeve bodies are retained, however, the installation process is much less stressful on the block, there is no possibility of coolant leakage since the stock sleeve structure is preserved, and stock cooling capacity is retained.

You can't compare these sleeves to the GE sleeves.

LuDe tEkNiQ · 02-27-2004, 07:58 PM

cusec 08 what kan u do the 5th gen tranny to make it better than it is....please letme know

cuseC08 · 02-28-2004, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LuDe tEkNiQ
cusec 08 what kan u do the 5th gen tranny to make it better than it is....please letme know

http://www.swaintech.com/index.html

this is where i was referred to go, it seems like a pretty cool idea... but i'm not sure how well it works... they will do the gears for you

LuDe tEkNiQ · 02-29-2004, 01:57 PM

coo thanks...has anyone got anything done from them if so letme know how well it works out.........