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Old 03-02-2002, 01:27 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: to marcucci

Finally eliminated the tapping above 3000 RPMS. I was about to go get a stealtho(sp) scope today to pin point which area on the head was the cause of the problem.I just decided to open the valve cover once more. I went .001" underspec factory valve clearance.

ie

.006-.007" to .005-.006" et cetera

This eliminated the valve tap I was having. I adjusted ignition timing but it had nothing to do with the valve tap. Thanks for all the advice you've given marcucci. The valves are as quiet as a mouse now.

Jake


Quote:
Originally posted by marcucci
[B]

So you're just talking about the valve lash adjuster, what you adjust to adjust the valves, right? That's what it sounds like. So did you adjust that valve so that the rocker stopped contacting the cam, or did you just set it to spec? If you set it a lot looser than spec, that might be causing the (or at least a) problem. Much looser than spec and you can burn valves as well as hurt power, maybe even imbalance things enough to cause all kinds of weird problems.

I think you know enough of what you're doing to know WHAT you are doing in terms of setting the valve adjustment. You seem to have the concept down which makes me think it's not what you're doing. You should only need to adjust the valve lash with the cam lobe in Honda's position or pointing away from the rocker, you shouldn't need to adjust (or adjust for) anything else. That's why I say you might have something seriously wrong. If you adjusted the one rocker too loose or by some other spec, all bets are off.



I hope so too! You shouldn't need to adjust your timing, but I'd set it back to stock (if advanced) to be safe. Once you get the tapping eliminated you can bring the timing back in.
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Old 03-03-2002, 07:42 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: to marcucci

Quote:
Originally posted by Phamine
Thanks for all the advice you've given marcucci. The valves are as quiet as a mouse now.
You are very welcome- glad it's fixed. I really thought it was going to be something bad, your "above 3000 RPM" thing is a new one for me. We both learned something.
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Old 03-04-2002, 04:46 PM   #23 (permalink)
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THank YOU MARCUCCI

i did a valve adjustment last night using marcucci's method.

the valve taps are almost all gone....(maybe i should have tightened it some more)
someone should definitly FAQ his method
i used 0.06mm for intake and 0.14mm for exhaust; adjusting it by one tooth off the TDC mark.

BUt i am having another problem. my compression is screwed up.
i did a compression test after the adjustment and got
cylinder #1 ~155psi #2~180 #3~180 #4~180
are these readings alight?? or do i have another problem?


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Old 03-04-2002, 04:48 PM   #24 (permalink)
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BTW- the engine was at noraml operating temp. when i did the compression test and at wide open throttle
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Old 03-04-2002, 04:56 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I did an compression test and the readings for cylinder one to four are 155, 180, 180, 180 respectively. I also did a vaccum leak test and the needle fluctuated between 20.5-21Hg. Do you think there is a worn valve guide or a leaking gasket somewhere?
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Old 03-05-2002, 06:31 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Re: THank YOU MARCUCCI

First...

Quote:

my compression is screwed up.
i did a compression test after the adjustment and got
cylinder #1 ~155psi #2~180 #3~180 #4~180
are these readings alight?? or do i have another problem?
NO!!! That's horrible. Your #1 cylinder is AWEFUL. I would not drive the car if at all possible until you can figure this out.

First question, what motor is this? We need to find out what the spec is for compression. With the 3 180's I'm sure it's not an H22, and probably not an H23... an F22 S motor? 3rd Gen B series?

Quote:
i used 0.06mm for intake and 0.14mm for exhaust; adjusting it by one tooth off the TDC mark.
Christ, that's like .002" on intake and .005" on the exhaust. Are those numbers right?! IMMEDIATELY change that. Your intake valves are likely not even closing when the car is warm, that's probably your problem. You went too far!

Your intake AND exhaust valves should be no tighter than .005" or about .12mm. Any tighter and you will likely run 0 clearance or interference at normal operating temp. Your #1 cylinder intake valve is probably not closing all the way because of this, hence the low compression.

Set your intake valves back to .005 and report back.

I also am concerned about the "one tooth off the TDC mark." Any reason for that? When I do mine with the lobe pointed away from the rocker it's usually more than that, but if you are working with a SOHC engine it's going to be way different from a DOHC one.
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Old 03-05-2002, 05:00 PM   #27 (permalink)
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my car is H23 and the compression spec is 180psi. I noticed cylinder#1 is low and I added oil in it and the compression remained the same. I suspect there is problem with the valve. In regards to your comment, I don't think I went to tight on the valve adjustment because the spec under the hood says 0.09mm for intake and 0.17mm for exhaust.

I think the cause of low compression in cylinder 1 is not related to the valve adjustment because all four cylinders are adjusted the same way. I did it the same way as the second picture was.(a little off TDC - off by a tooth). I suspect one or more valves are bent or burnt. How would you verify it? Also, would it be the reason why the engine vibrates? Why shouldn't I drive the car? It is driveable.
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Old 03-05-2002, 05:09 PM   #28 (permalink)
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The intake valves are suppose to be tighter, no?

This is quoted from hondaprelude.com

93-95 Prelude H23A1 engines

Intake valves .09mm +/- .02mm or .003" - .004" Exhaust valves .17mm +/- .02mm or .006" - .007"

I used .06mm for intake and .14 for exhaust with VERY little drag.
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Old 03-05-2002, 07:18 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by SSgohan
The intake valves are suppose to be tighter, no?

This is quoted from hondaprelude.com

93-95 Prelude H23A1 engines

Intake valves .09mm +/- .02mm or .003" - .004" Exhaust valves .17mm +/- .02mm or .006" - .007"

I used .06mm for intake and .14 for exhaust with VERY little drag.
Yes, those are the valve lash specs for the H23. I went .001" tighter on the specifications as well.
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Old 03-08-2002, 01:25 AM   #30 (permalink)
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can anyone clear up this issue?
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Old 03-08-2002, 06:13 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by SSgohan
I don't think I went to tight on the valve adjustment because the spec under the hood says 0.09mm for intake and 0.17mm for exhaust.
Christ. I don't have an H23 (or manual), so I can't comment- but .002" of clearance is nothing. I find it hard to believe that it's the right spec, but if that's what the sticker says...

Quote:
I think the cause of low compression in cylinder 1 is not related to the valve adjustment because all four cylinders are adjusted the same way.
That doesn't mean that one rocker or valve doesn't expand more or less than another. Do you know how thick .002" is? I wouldn't be surprised if that .002" disappears when the engine heats up.

Quote:
I did it the same way as the second picture was.(a little off TDC - off by a tooth). I suspect one or more valves are bent or burnt. How would you verify it?
A bent valve usually results in much worse problems, though this could certainly be a burnt valve. The only way to check (truly) is to leak-test or teardown, though there are a few things you can do (see below).

Quote:
Also, would it be the reason why the engine vibrates? Why shouldn't I drive the car? It is driveable.
This could be why the car is vibrating, if one cylinder is low and not making as much power as the others. I offer that there are a lot of other reasons on an H23 for vibration, though, like motor mounts or other non-related problems.

If you run too tight of clearance you might not get complete compression in one or more cylinders. This is NOT a very good way to drive, and on an interference engine increases the likelihood of introducing the pistons and the valves to each other. I don't know the compression ratio of the H23 offhand, but I suspect it's got a fair bit of interference. That, and for general engine health is why I would say do not drive it... then again, I also think .002" of clearance is too little. Apparently Honda does not.

*I* would suggest backing off the clearance on that valve by .003 or .004" (to .005 or .006") and see if the compression comes back. If so, you know it's the adjustment. If not, set it back to what it was and do the following:

Decarbonizing:
- Try a bottle of Regane. You should be able to get it at your local Hi/Lo-O'Rielley's or Target. Put a bottle in with your next fill up and run at least one more tank through after that (without adding more). After that second tank, compression test again.
- If it's still low, remove the coil wire or all your plug wires. Remove the plug from the suspected cylinder. Apply 2 capfulls of brake fluid in through the plug hole. Crank the engine for 5-10 seconds (might want to do it with a towel over the plug hole since you will blow brake fluid out of it. Repeat. Button it back up and take it for a 10-15 minute drive, then re-test compression.
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