Wow, I even got a mention in that voting thread. I think you would have gotten more votes, Billy if you helped people choose what rims and body kit match their car more often.
__________________ DirtyLude
Mark Higgins
Toronto Prelude Club www.hondaprelude.to
From what I know, ATTS won't help with launches or anything because it doesn't limit wheelspin. It still relies on the fact that both wheels are firmly planted on the surface that you're driving on. There was some debate as to whether or not the differential in the SH was an LSD, but I seriously doubt it. I believe that it's an open differential. If you have it apart, take a look at the diff as well and see if you can tell. I suppose there is another way to tell. When you do a burn out, is it a one wheel wonder?
As for you losing interest, I don't know what to tell you. What can I say, I am long winded! Figure out ATTS and let us know how you think it works, then we can compare notes.
Originally posted by DirtyLude Wow, I even got a mention in that voting thread. I think you would have gotten more votes, Billy if you helped people choose what rims and body kit match their car more often.
Of course. Then again, I might have gotten more votes if I didn't piss people off so much.
Originally posted by 71dsp From what I know, ATTS won't help with launches or anything because it doesn't limit wheelspin.
Mmy ATTS just sits like a dead lump behind my block so it really doesn't do anything. What I was really thinking of was trying to get some type of simple controller made up that would sence wheel spin using the wheel speed sensor and drop torque from the spinning wheel.
It seems like a very simple thing to make up. When I was looking at the ATTS controller wiring diagrams, I seem to remember that the left/right torque control was done through variable voltage to two wires. I haven't looked at it in a while, though.
__________________ DirtyLude
Mark Higgins
Toronto Prelude Club www.hondaprelude.to
Okay, just for you, I added the disclaimer that it's the way that ATTS works as I understand it.
Speaking of which, whatever happened with that dude that said he knew about ATTS more than you did, the same guy that also said that he had a Type S h22? Did he ever respond back to your emails?
__________________
James--'99 Ficus Green Pearl Type SH, 03' Starlight Silver Metallic Pilot EX-L, 02' silver Mitsubishi Galant ES
The value of life can be measured by how many times your soul has been deeply stirred...--Soichiro Honda www.hacstl.com...RIP 1999--2011
this is an interesting aside to the debate currently raging on scca about the legality of the atts system in the street touring class!
i don't have my helms in front of me, but for those of you with one there is a fairly interesting description of how the atts works. i too have seen the various honda quotes about how much "torque" it can transfer from one wheel to the other. however, i don't understand how the two electrically controlled clutches could transmit a variable amount of torque to the planetary gearset. seems like it would be on or off; i.e. directing more torque right or more torque left!
and just in case there's any confusion about this (i don't think there is) the ATTS does NOTHING for straight line launches. unlike most LSDs or TCS' it is a proactive system. rather than acting solely on traction or wheelspin, it monitors speed, engine speed, engine load, yaw, steering angle, etc, and then transfers torque however it sees fit. if the wheel is straight, car is level, etc, it's just sitting there sucking up a lb-ft of torque or so to turn it's gears.
__________________
"AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals." R.I.P. Jerry Falwell.
Originally posted by 71dsp Never did hear back. I even sent 3 or 4 follow up e-mails egging him on, but nothing to date. I guess he wasn't as knowledgeable as he said he was.
You go Billy!
__________________
James--'99 Ficus Green Pearl Type SH, 03' Starlight Silver Metallic Pilot EX-L, 02' silver Mitsubishi Galant ES
The value of life can be measured by how many times your soul has been deeply stirred...--Soichiro Honda www.hacstl.com...RIP 1999--2011
Originally posted by schwett this is an interesting aside to the debate currently raging on scca about the legality of the atts system in the street touring class!
I mentioned at the Autocross Forum that we oughta make a petition against that ruling...I guess there's no interest in that.
__________________
James--'99 Ficus Green Pearl Type SH, 03' Starlight Silver Metallic Pilot EX-L, 02' silver Mitsubishi Galant ES
The value of life can be measured by how many times your soul has been deeply stirred...--Soichiro Honda www.hacstl.com...RIP 1999--2011
i read all the crap on yahoo groups about that, and i gotta say those people are worse than us. it seemed to me that much of the crap technical talk from people who've probably never driven an atts lude was just a cover for their desire to get cars that are "better" then theirs out of the class. by definition the classes are fairly broad, so, sure, there's gonna be some range. i didn't understand why some were so vehement about getting the sh out of the class.
Quote:
Originally posted by Jacques
I mentioned at the Autocross Forum that we oughta make a petition against that ruling...I guess there's no interest in that.
__________________
"AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals." R.I.P. Jerry Falwell.
Originally posted by schwett i don't have my helms in front of me, but for those of you with one there is a fairly interesting description of how the atts works. i too have seen the various honda quotes about how much "torque" it can transfer from one wheel to the other. however, i don't understand how the two electrically controlled clutches could transmit a variable amount of torque to the planetary gearset. seems like it would be on or off; i.e. directing more torque right or more torque left!
The clutches just control the planetary gearset. It either reduces or raises the drive ratio of the left drive shaft by 15% (i.e. it's on or off). There is no electrically variable torque (or drive ratio) bias.
Originally posted by schwett i read all the crap on yahoo groups about that, and i gotta say those people are worse than us. it seemed to me that much of the crap technical talk from people who've probably never driven an atts lude was just a cover for their desire to get cars that are "better" then theirs out of the class. by definition the classes are fairly broad, so, sure, there's gonna be some range. i didn't understand why some were so vehement about getting the sh out of the class.
That's one reason why I have no desire to do any competitive racing, autocrossing or track racing, unless it's a spec class. Well, I suppose if someone sponsored me, I would be happy to race!
Originally posted by schwett i read all the crap on yahoo groups about that, and i gotta say those people are worse than us.
I've been reading all that crap also on Yahoo groups.
Quote:
it seemed to me that much of the crap technical talk from people who've probably never driven an atts lude was just a cover for their desire to get cars that are "better" then theirs out of the class.
Exactly, I'm thinking the exact same thing too. Just look at how negative the Neon guy gets about the ATTS.
Billy, you maybe able to help us out by writing an email to Howard Duncan about what you just said. This may get the SH back in STS class. Basically, Howard said that the ATTS unit is illegal in STS. This is what he said in his reply to me (sent to me on 12/18/01):
Quote:
Mr. Wong,
Regarding the ATTS in Honda Preludes, I can only answer the questions
presented to me. When I was first asked about this I was not given any
technical data, but rather had it described as a traction control system.
With that assumption, I said it was legal. Subsequent questions indicated
that it was not a traction control system, which usually employs some
combination of braking and engine power limitation, but rather an actual
differential system in which there is a electronically actuated torque
transfer system in place. A discussion I had with a Honda technician seemed
to confirm that.
I have not received any technical data from anyone involved in this
discussion, on either side. I have only received ad copy type descriptions
of the system, but nothing that officially (Honda) describes the parts and
pieces. Therefore I have only answered the questions presented. If it is an
LSD system other than a viscous coupler type it is not legal. If it is
actually a traction control type system it is legal. The definition we are
using is the common knowlege one that apperars in Club Racing's GCR. It
defines an LSD as "A differential which is designed in such a way as to
overcome the normal action of a differential to apply most of the available
torque to the least loaded wheel, and instead to apply a significant portion
of the torque to the most loaded wheel."
I hope this helps.
Howard Duncan
SCCA Rally/Solo Project Manager
303-779-6622, FAX 303-694-3654
1-800-770-2055
__________________ 2009 BMW 335i Coupe, Alpine White/Black Dakota, 6MT
2010 Audi S4, Ibis White/Magma Red, 6MT
"A differential which is designed in such a way as to
overcome the normal action of a differential to apply most of the available
torque to the least loaded wheel, and instead to apply a significant portion
of the torque to the most loaded wheel."
If that's the case, the ATTS does not fall under this category even remotely as it doesn't care about wheel load at all. It's just not an LSD in any sense of the term.
__________________ DirtyLude
Mark Higgins
Toronto Prelude Club www.hondaprelude.to
DUDE! LOL how's your car coming along? Hope everything goes well.
Gotta say there are some people on here that know a LOT of stuff. 71dsp thanks for the info.
Andrew - after i drove your car with the ATTS both on and off there was no question about how much more fun it was to drive with it on. I think i can find some here, by the way.
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What can I say, I am long winded! Figure out ATTS and let us know how you think it works, then we can compare notes.
This is what he said in his reply to me (sent to me on 12/18/01):
Linear Mode
