I'll start with the whole story (brace yourselves):
I install a Jackson Racing supercharger w/ Walbro GSS342 fuel pump. Drive around for over a week without any major problems. About a week and half after the install I get it on the dyno and they make some fuel adjustments (mainly adding fuel, but I am not saying this is directly related). I'm driving home from the dyno session and my car dies in the middle of the street. It will crank but never start because it's not getting any fuel. I have it towed to my apartment.
Once at my apartment I check the fuel pump fuse and it's blown so I replace it. I turn the car to the on position and the fuel pump makes a very very strange low-pitched rumble/vibration. I turn the car off remove the pump, inspect it and reinstall it. It does the same thing.
Next I remove the pump and hook up some clips to it outside the car. It seems to be have a hiccup in it, the sound it makes is not a continuous high pitched whine. I hook up the stock pump outside the car to compare and the stock pump makes the noise you would expect to hear. I arrange to have Jackson send me a new pump and I throw the stock one back in to get me around for a few days (going very easy on the throttle of course). When the stock pump was in the noise it made was incredibly loud at all levels of driving, even just idling. I figured it's just working hard but how could it be working THAT hard at idle? Even with all the JR fuel devices, idle is idle and shouldn't demand that much fuel. Anyway, the stock pump holds up for about 4 days while I wait for the new pump.
Yesterday I got my new pump (Walbro GSS342) and installed it. Everything seemed to be working ok, and it was definitely quieter than having the stock pump in. I drive about 5 miles to school and decided to take it in to boost for a second on the way. No real problems. After class, I hop in and turn the car to the "ON II" position. The pump sounds a little funny, it's making a small mixture of different noises but I think "Oh well". It starts fine and I start driving home. About 2 miles down the road the car just shuts off. Luckily I had some speed and pulled it in to a near by parking lot. I'm REALLY REALLY PISSED OFF at this point. I check the fuse and guess what, it's blown. I put a new 15A fuse in and turn the car to the "On II" position. The same low pitched rumble that the last Walbro made is back. This time I say **** it and try to start it. It starts and I drive it home.
All this happened last night at about 9PM and I haven't done anything else with the car. I am now totally and completely boggled at where my problem is. And I doubt Jackson Racing is going to be able to troubleshoot my problem over the phone.
Some of my random thoughts/questions are:
1)What if there was never anything wrong with the first fuel pump?
2)Since all this started happening right after my dyno session, maybe the fuel pressure is WAY to high (I don't have a FP gauge yet).
2.1)But could high fuel pressure kill a Walbro GSS342 in a matter of 10 miles?
2.1.1)And if so, why would the stock (lower capacity) pump hold up then?
2.2)How could high fuel pressure cause the pump to sound so funny when the car is not even running?
3)I could technically drive my car, but what if my car dies while I'm driving down the freeway? Not a pleasant thought.
4)The fuel pumping system just doesn't seem that complicated to me, but what do I know.
5)Could something simple like the screen on the pump be causing all this madness?
6)What relevant information could be gained from an OBDII scan tool?
I hope you guys were able to follow my story, I tried to make it coherent. Please don’t feel overwhelmed by all my ramblings. I need a fresh perspective on this whole thing so… Please Ask questions and Give comments.
hmmmm....have you checked all of your wiring? You may have a short in the wiring of the fuel pump. Also check where your electronics are wired into the the ecu. It sounds stupid...but I had a huge problem after mine was installed...the tech who did it used the butt connectors/t connectors instead of solder.
Check your fuel pressures. Did you change the JR FPR or are you using somebody elses? Check for ubstructions to the fuel pump that are could be straining the pump. It is pumping fuel...but something is causeing a increase/spike in voltage that is causing the fuse to blow. Call JR anyway...they will probably call OJ himself. Talk to Shawn he is great.
well i can't really help you here, but logic would dictate that two pumps are probably not BOTH faulty, and the problem is in some other part of the installation.
where is your AFPR set to? when i cranked mine all the way in, the fuel pressures were RIDICULOUSLY high - well over 100psi at "baseline." if your car was running OK, i doubt your pressures are really screwed up, but check the entire fuel management system to be sure; the vac hose to the stock fpr, the vac hose to the jr unit, etc. and DEFINITELY get a gauge. without the gauge you won't be able to test either FPR, which is probably the next thing i'd do if i was you.
Quote:
Originally posted by LuderSH I'll start with the whole story (brace yourselves):
I install a Jackson Racing supercharger w/ Walbro GSS342 fuel pump. Drive around for over a week without any major problems. About a week and half after the install I get it on the dyno and they make some fuel adjustments (mainly adding fuel, but I am not saying this is directly related). I'm driving home from the dyno session and my car dies in the middle of the street. It will crank but never start because it's not getting any fuel. I have it towed to my apartment.
Once at my apartment I check the fuel pump fuse and it's blown so I replace it. I turn the car to the on position and the fuel pump makes a very very strange low-pitched rumble/vibration. I turn the car off remove the pump, inspect it and reinstall it. It does the same thing.
Next I remove the pump and hook up some clips to it outside the car. It seems to be have a hiccup in it, the sound it makes is not a continuous high pitched whine. I hook up the stock pump outside the car to compare and the stock pump makes the noise you would expect to hear. I arrange to have Jackson send me a new pump and I throw the stock one back in to get me around for a few days (going very easy on the throttle of course). When the stock pump was in the noise it made was incredibly loud at all levels of driving, even just idling. I figured it's just working hard but how could it be working THAT hard at idle? Even with all the JR fuel devices, idle is idle and shouldn't demand that much fuel. Anyway, the stock pump holds up for about 4 days while I wait for the new pump.
Yesterday I got my new pump (Walbro GSS342) and installed it. Everything seemed to be working ok, and it was definitely quieter than having the stock pump in. I drive about 5 miles to school and decided to take it in to boost for a second on the way. No real problems. After class, I hop in and turn the car to the "ON II" position. The pump sounds a little funny, it's making a small mixture of different noises but I think "Oh well". It starts fine and I start driving home. About 2 miles down the road the car just shuts off. Luckily I had some speed and pulled it in to a near by parking lot. I'm REALLY REALLY PISSED OFF at this point. I check the fuse and guess what, it's blown. I put a new 15A fuse in and turn the car to the "On II" position. The same low pitched rumble that the last Walbro made is back. This time I say **** it and try to start it. It starts and I drive it home.
All this happened last night at about 9PM and I haven't done anything else with the car. I am now totally and completely boggled at where my problem is. And I doubt Jackson Racing is going to be able to troubleshoot my problem over the phone.
Some of my random thoughts/questions are:
1)What if there was never anything wrong with the first fuel pump?
2)Since all this started happening right after my dyno session, maybe the fuel pressure is WAY to high (I don't have a FP gauge yet).
2.1)But could high fuel pressure kill a Walbro GSS342 in a matter of 10 miles?
2.1.1)And if so, why would the stock (lower capacity) pump hold up then?
2.2)How could high fuel pressure cause the pump to sound so funny when the car is not even running?
3)I could technically drive my car, but what if my car dies while I'm driving down the freeway? Not a pleasant thought.
4)The fuel pumping system just doesn't seem that complicated to me, but what do I know.
5)Could something simple like the screen on the pump be causing all this madness?
6)What relevant information could be gained from an OBDII scan tool?
I hope you guys were able to follow my story, I tried to make it coherent. Please don’t feel overwhelmed by all my ramblings. I need a fresh perspective on this whole thing so… Please Ask questions and Give comments.
__________________
"AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals." R.I.P. Jerry Falwell.
I think it is a fuel pressure problem. Your reg is probably adjusted too high. Of course, without a gauge it is mostly a guess. Those walboro fps are known to die at high pressures. The stock fuel pump has an internal relief valve, so even if there is no fuel bypass in the rail, the pressure wouldn't go past @70psi.
And, with a supercharger set up, as with most FI set-ups, if a Hondata is too much, a VAFC and big injectors should work fine...
You guys might be on to something here. So far everything you've said makes sense. The screw on my FPR IS almost all the way in. And the part about the internal spring would explain why the stocker didn't die. I'm still having a hard time swallowing how the Walbro would have died after 10 miles though. If I back the screw out on the FPR I will be making things leaner, but as long as I stay in closed loop and out of boost I shouldn't be doing any damage right?
My next question is How much should I back it out? The screw is almost all the way in, maybe like 1 thread still showing. Should I do like one full turn or what?
I am working on the Fuel Pressure gauge. The sender has been in place since I installed the Supercharger but when I tried hooking up the gauge I got no reading. I contacted Autometer and am going to do some tests on it today with a multimeter.
screw it all the way in. then unscrew it 2 full turns. drive carefully, since you don't have fp or a/f gauges. however, i would really recommend not doing anything until you get your gauge hooked up, or have a pro do it. if your fuel pressure is too low you will run lean and the extra heat may/will damage the engine. if you have any signs of detonation STOP DRIVING! good luck.
Quote:
Originally posted by LuderSH You guys might be on to something here. So far everything you've said makes sense. The screw on my FPR IS almost all the way in. And the part about the internal spring would explain why the stocker didn't die. I'm still having a hard time swallowing how the Walbro would have died after 10 miles though. If I back the screw out on the FPR I will be making things leaner, but as long as I stay in closed loop and out of boost I shouldn't be doing any damage right?
My next question is How much should I back it out? The screw is almost all the way in, maybe like 1 thread still showing. Should I do like one full turn or what?
I am working on the Fuel Pressure gauge. The sender has been in place since I installed the Supercharger but when I tried hooking up the gauge I got no reading. I contacted Autometer and am going to do some tests on it today with a multimeter.
Thanks
__________________
"AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals." R.I.P. Jerry Falwell.
My feul pump makes a loud rumble when It is pressurizing. When I start the car it goes away. I think this is normal right? The FPR is very sensitive a quarter of a turn is about 10psi so be careful. My car is in the shop right now with a problem, maybe its the same problem, but with diferent symptoms. Another member on this board had the same problem but he said that he retarded the timing less and it solved it. He went from 10 clicks to 3 or 4 past minimum.
i don't know about yours, but on mine 1/4 turn is NOWHERE NEAR 10psi. i've checked this with both an underhood gauge and my in cockpit autometer, and the difference between 2 full turns and 3 full turns is about 5-10psi. the rate of adjustment is not linear. as you get further and further "in" the rate increases a lot. on mine, 3 turns is about a 65-70 psi baseline, 2 turns is 70-75, 1 turn is in the 80s, and no turns is off the meter.
Quote:
Originally posted by chomorro My feul pump makes a loud rumble when It is pressurizing. When I start the car it goes away. I think this is normal right? The FPR is very sensitive a quarter of a turn is about 10psi so be careful. My car is in the shop right now with a problem, maybe its the same problem, but with diferent symptoms. Another member on this board had the same problem but he said that he retarded the timing less and it solved it. He went from 10 clicks to 3 or 4 past minimum.
__________________
"AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals." R.I.P. Jerry Falwell.
Guys, from what I've heard, going by a set amount of 'turns' others have set on their FPR's is about as last as a resort as you can get when it comes to tuning the regulator. LuderSH, ignore their comments.
BUT, in this case, I think it's safe to say that you can take a turn or two out of the regulator, and try to drive w/o hitting boost. In fact, as long as you aren't hitting boost, you can go even lower than that. Just in case your foot slips, however, I wouldn't take out too much .
Like everyone has stated, check all connections, from the EMS, to the fuel lines on the FPR, to the fuel lines on the pump, to anything you can possible remember when installing the kit. I know this sounds extremely tedious, but you've got a serious problem on your hands and you need to do some serious work (damn that sounds corny).
A FP gauge is ALWAYS handy
(like I should talk--I haven't even placed the order for my gauge yet!!!)
Originally posted by hopen_luder
Check your fuel pressures. Did you change the JR FPR or are you using somebody elses? Check for ubstructions to the fuel pump that are could be straining the pump. It is pumping fuel...but something is causeing a increase/spike in voltage that is causing the fuse to blow. Call JR anyway...they will probably call OJ himself. Talk to Shawn he is great.
The guys that worked at the dyno made the adjustments. I called JR and talked to Keith, he wasn't much help. Now that you mention an obstruction, let me know if you guys think this could be a problem: On my fuel line betwee the filter and fuel rail I have a "T" connector. Instead of having the fuel flow straight across the "T" it makes a 90 degree turn and the fuel pressure sender is straight ahead of the flowing fuel. It looks kinda like this:
F
U
E
L
|
|
|
|
v
T
T
T
TTTTTTTT---------> FUEL
T
T
T
|
|
|
|
v
F
P
S
E
N
D
E
R
Sorry about the crappy illustration, but you get the point that the fuel makes a 90 degree turn. Do you guys think this could be a problem or does it not even matter?
Originally posted by chomorro My feul pump makes a loud rumble when It is pressurizing. When I start the car it goes away. I think this is normal right? The FPR is very sensitive a quarter of a turn is about 10psi so be careful. My car is in the shop right now with a problem, maybe its the same problem, but with diferent symptoms. Another member on this board had the same problem but he said that he retarded the timing less and it solved it. He went from 10 clicks to 3 or 4 past minimum.
Hmmm... This is strange. Chomorro, does your pump not make any high pitched noise at all until it's started?
Do you guys think I could have permanently damaged my pump? I'm wondering if the pressure really is the problem and I turn it down will I still have to get a new pump?
Originally posted by LuderSH
Sorry about the crappy illustration, but you get the point that the fuel makes a 90 degree turn. Do you guys think this could be a problem or does it not even matter?
Hmm...interesting. It may be worth a shot, assuming you can easily access the Tee. I think at 80+psi, that sharp 90 degree bend *might* place a little more strain on the system. Check it out and see what happens.
Also, try speaking with either Shawn, or better yet, see if they'll at least forward it to Oscar.
i have a tee just like that in my fuel line, but i have the fuel running straight across the tee into the rail and the sender on the 90. i think it could be a problem the way you have it.
Quote:
Originally posted by iranman
Hmm...interesting. It may be worth a shot, assuming you can easily access the Tee. I think at 80+psi, that sharp 90 degree bend *might* place a little more strain on the system. Check it out and see what happens.
Also, try speaking with either Shawn, or better yet, see if they'll at least forward it to Oscar.
__________________
"AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals." R.I.P. Jerry Falwell.
Originally posted by hopen_luder My rumbles when pressurizing...but no noise after that.
OK, this is getting weird. So mine, Chomorro, and hopen_luder's fuel pumps all rumble and then whine once started. I find this very strange, but I still don't think it's normal since Iranman's whines when pressurizing (like stock but louder) and whines when driving.
Maybe this means my pump isn't shot. I was taking the rumbling sound to mean that the pump is dead, but now I'm not sure. WHAT'S GOING ON HERE???????????
you know, i have *never* heard a peep out of my fuel pump...
i drive around all the time with the radio off, cruising nice and steady so i can check for pinging when i hit it. i think i'd have heard it by now. how loud is it?
all i hear are normal engine sounds, a really odd whistling that only happened since i put an intake in, and the whine of the blower when boosting.
Quote:
Originally posted by LuderSH
OK, this is getting weird. So mine, Chomorro, and hopen_luder's fuel pumps all rumble and then whine once started. I find this very strange, but I still don't think it's normal since Iranman's whines when pressurizing (like stock but louder) and whines when driving.
Maybe this means my pump isn't shot. I was taking the rumbling sound to mean that the pump is dead, but now I'm not sure. WHAT'S GOING ON HERE???????????
__________________
"AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals." R.I.P. Jerry Falwell.
Schwett...you are wiener!
When I turn the iginition on ..the pump goes...."whinneee, click" that is all. It is just the fuel pump turning on and presurizin. I once drove from 5 hours between CA and AZ @ 90 plus and when I stopped with less than a 1/4 tank of gas I could really here the pump wine...but that is going 90 for 5 hours can get the pump hot.
Oh yeah...Schwett...My makes this really wierd sucking noise and has this nasty wine when I put my foot to the floor!
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