Need some info. from 5th gen F-Max turbo lude owners - Honda Prelude Forum

GK98Lude · 08-31-2002, 08:19 PM

Ok,.. I just recently became an official member of this site, but I have been reading and researching these forums for quite some time now and I have learned alot,.. lots of good info. I have a 98 lude, 5-speed,. and I am in the middle of reasearching my options for going turbo,.. I am leaning heavily towards some variation of the F-Max kit and I was just wanting to hear back from anyone on here who is already running a F-Max kit on a 5th gen lude. I have a bunch of questions, so any and all help will be greatly appreciated,.. I have researched the forum quite a bit, but would like some specific feedback from those who actually ran a F-max turbo, or who currently are running one or any variation of one.

* anyone get the ball bearing turbo upgrade,.. and how much better is it really than the regular turbo,.. is it worth it on our car?

* anyone get the water injection system option, if so,.. what do you think,.. good, bad,.. does it help make it safer, is it worth it..?

* I'm definitely getting the thicker head gasket option,.. does anyone know exactly how much that rIdeal head gasket actually lowers our compression,.. from 10.0 to 1 ,.. to,..???

*am I correct in assuming that the fuel management system is meant to run with the 2 additional 440 injectors, plus the stock injectors ,.. all on the stock fuel pump and at stock fuel pressure,.?

* I dont want a delta waste gate,.. anyone know the correct size of a Tial wastegate I would need,. 35mm, 37mm,,..??

* And, the way that the MF2 is designed to work,.. is it still necessary or a good idea to have a V-AFC,.. ?

* how many of you went with an ARP head stud kit..? And also,.. I most definitely will be getting this dyno tuned,.. who got theirs tuned professionaly and what kind of numbers are you putting to the wheels,.. and at what psi,..what set up,.. ?

* Initially, this will be done on stock internals,.. I know, I know,.. I have heard the horror stories,.. but to be honest, most of what I have read has been people blowing their ludes up due to never tuning their car, never finding out what kind of air/fuel ratio they were running.. not lowering the compression before they went forced induction, and doing very little with their set ups to eliminate detonation,.. oh and most importantly, probably turning the boost up a tad bit too high,..anyway that is why I'm getting info from those who have done it already with the F-Max kit,.. the do's, the don'ts,.. cause I'm thinking if I lower compression with the head gasket, further reduce intake temp with the water injection, dont boost too crazy high, and get the whole thing dyno tuned to get the bugs out, It should be relatively safe. ?

Sorry this was so long, but like I said, I got lots of questions,. so any input on any of those questions would be really appreciated.

Thanks,..

NtPReLuDe · 08-31-2002, 08:37 PM

I don't have the f-max kit but I can answer a few questions. Tial wastegates come in 35mm or 40mm & bigger but I doubt you'll need that. The 35mm is the one you need if its for a dierect replacement for the deltagate. I know guy here in my town who put down 170 at the wheels from that kit at 6psi. I believe the t3/t4 they use is a little smaller then the drag's turbo, in terms of wheel trims, and ar.

ELUD THS · 08-31-2002, 09:29 PM

i am running A variation of the f-max kit my self on a 99 5th gen lude. i have all the f-max manifold, piping etc, but my fuel system consist of stock injectors etc etc but i have a 12:1 vortech FMU and an MSD inline fuel pump. i have stock head gasket and stock cam settings for now . i am running a 35 mm wastegate, all depends on how much boost are oyu looking for,. you can get optional trimming for the exhaust and ar side from fmax with there turbo, i did not get the bb option. i have been running my turbo for over 10,000 miles., juts got a rebuild last week because i started smoking a bit. they are great for low end. but with the t3/t4 that i have it sucks when vtec engages, you dont feel any boost, its there, but the t3/t4 i have is only good for low-mid rpm, when boosting around town etc etc, im going to change my trim over to a higher one soon. if yopu have any more questions ill answer them for you.

Quaalude · 08-31-2002, 11:48 PM

i'm running the variation of the fmax kit also on a '99 SH....if i would buy it again, i would purchase the kit without the turbo or fuel management because the specs for the turbo are on the small side and the fuel management is not that good....here is some answers to your questions:

1. i don't have the BB option...i sold the turbo that came with the kit (T3/T4B H-3) and got a larger turbo (T3/T4E-60 trim)....if you search under the title "Fmax manifold and T3/T4E", it will show you how i modified the manifold to fit the larger turbo...i made $100 from the sale and got a bigger turbo at the same time

2. don't get the water injection...save the money for a standalone like hondata (cheaper of the standalones), aem ems, haltech, etc. and larger injectors
3. i think the r-ideal lowers the compression one point...you can get a Comestic gasket for cheaper....i'm running the 0.057" Comestic gasket which lowered my compression to ~9.4:1
4. yes
5. the kit comes with a 35 mm Tial wastegate now...well at least mine did
6. yes, so you can control the stock injectors
7. 204 whp and 185 lb-ft with type S cams and the T3/T4B H-3....the type S cams was killing my performance from the valve overlap....i had to dial the cam gears to +4/-4 to get rid of the overlap....i swapped in the stock cams now

cliff notes: Buy only the manifold, downpipe, Tial wastegate, IC piping, and intercooler. Also, get a blow off valve (one that comes with the kit is a HKS Racing but I bought a Greddy Type S to replace it). Buy a standalone and larger injectors (440 cc or larger, better to just get 550 cc). Depending on the standalone, you might need a detonation management like the J&S ultra safeguard. And remember to search this forum to see what is good so you don't waste money the first time out.

GK98Lude · 09-01-2002, 07:14 AM

Thanks a bunch so far everyone,.. lots of good info for me,.. that kind of sucks that they sized the turbo too small for the appication originally. And Quaalude, thanks for the link to how you upgraded the manifold to accomadate a bigger turbo. Also Quaalude, that 204 whp on the original turbo that came with the kit,.. that seems awful low, you said those S cams hurt you,.. did you ever dyno after changing over to the bigger turbo..? And how did F-Max put this kit on a stock lude at 9psi and dyno it out at 245whp,..<--- you think their numbers are for real,..?? One other thing Quaalude,.. you said the fuel management isn't that good and I should consider a standalone,.. why isn't any good, explain,.. because F-Max claims that buy adding those 2 440 injectors into the intake runner, not only does it help further reduce heat as the gas changes over to a vapor, but as a vapor it would promote better fuel distribution anyways. Anyways,... they made it sound good, I was just wondering if you could tell me what exactly you didn't like about it and if you ever tuned it at the dyno..? Thanks alot so far everyone,.. the info is good so far,.. maybe I will get a few others to respond also,.. thanks.

NtPReLuDe · 09-01-2002, 03:17 PM

For one thing distributing fuel from the intake is a bad idea, just asa nitrous. When you add so much fuel from that point of entry, its not even. Thus you start running lean in the cycinder furthest away, cycliner 1, and rich in the closest, cyclinder 4.

GK98Lude · 09-01-2002, 07:58 PM

Thanks NtPReLuDe,.. that makes sense, whatever cylinder is closest would get more of the fuel,.. now,.. how about if you had an EGT gauge on the exhaust manifold for the cylinder that was furthest away, essentially you should be reading the leanest or hottest exhaust temp there because theoretically that cylinder may not be getting as much gas,.. right..? the only good thing about the F-Max set up is it would reduce intake temp by dumping fuel before the throttle body,..

NtPReLuDe · 09-01-2002, 08:51 PM

yes you could but do you really want to be running stoich in one cyclinder and hella rich in the other? Its just not balanced I guess,

GK98Lude · 09-01-2002, 09:03 PM

Hey Nt,.. I was just reading through a bunch of other posts,.. just trying to absorb as much info as possible,.. are you running a DRAG kit on you lude..? or did I get you messed up with someone else,.. anyway, what is your setup,.. turbo wise,. I like F-Max except for the fuel part,.. and I'm sure DRAG is OK except I keep reading about the quality not being as good and people having problems with the manifolds,.. and I'm not sure if I like the idea of the intercooler piping being ran both on the same side like that,.. anyway,.. what are you running,.. I need all the good ideas on setups I can get,.. thanks,..

NtPReLuDe · 09-01-2002, 10:00 PM

I do have the drag kit, drag2. I had no problems with the manifold and as for the ic, I just ordered the Greddy type-31 ic. Its not going to be a perfect fit but with minor modifications everything should be ok. I also ditched the vortec fmu for 550 injectors and aem ems

GK98Lude · 09-02-2002, 08:49 AM

Thanks for the reply Nt,.. and if I remember correctly,.. you are putting some good power numbers down on relatively low boost aren't you,.. ? I agree about the Vortech unit,.. it's garbage. Are you running those 550 injectors on a stock fuel pump? And wouldn't I be able to run a similar type setup with a V-AFC or is there a bunch of good reasons to go with an AEM EMS.? Also,.. one last question,.. I know I am bugging you alot,.. are you switching over to the Greddy intercooler because of looks, functionality or both or what. Does the Greddy flow more air or something..? Thanks for all the help.

GK98Lude · 09-02-2002, 08:50 AM

Oh yeah one other thing,..what is the trim of your turbo,.. is it the one that comes with the gen 2 kit from DRAG or did you upgrade it.? Thanks.

Quaalude · 09-02-2002, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by NtPReLuDe
For one thing distributing fuel from the intake is a bad idea, just asa nitrous. When you add so much fuel from that point of entry, its not even. Thus you start running lean in the cycinder furthest away, cycliner 1, and rich in the closest, cyclinder 4.

exactly what Ntprelude said....fuel distribution is not even since the pressurized air coming in the intake doesn't allow the fuel to fully atomize evenly....the shortest path for the air/fuel mixture will get the most fuel...if the injectors were on opposite sides of the intake, then fuel distribution would be better but space constraints limit injector placement

NtPReLuDe · 09-02-2002, 03:05 PM

I forgot what the trim specs are exactly but it is the one that came with the drag2 kit. Its a little bigger then the f-max one, I made 245whp@6psi but I also tuned it with the aem ems

GK98Lude · 09-02-2002, 07:04 PM

Thanks alot Nt, I have heard that before about the turbo in the DRAG kit is a little bigger than the one that comes with the F-MAX.
245 at 6psi,.. that sounds really good to me considering what types of numbers I have been seeing on other set-ups,.. and that was only 6psi,..So was it hard to tune the AEM EMS,.. or is it relatively easy as long as you get some dyno time,..? One more question,.. does your car pull hard all the way to redline or does it top out before that,.. because alot of the F-MAX owners were saying that their cars topped out power wise around 5000rpms and it seemed like it dropped off after that,.. which is indicative of the turbo being sized too small. I don't know too much about that AEM EMS,.. so I am going to start reading up on that. Thanks for the info.

NtPReLuDe · 09-02-2002, 08:43 PM

I didn't do most of the tuning myself. I basically loaded up the base map, and got it running. Drove it to my shop and had them tune it on the dyno. And it pulls all the way to the redline. I'll try to find my dyno for ya...

NtPReLuDe · 09-02-2002, 08:44 PM

Here's my dyno, 245@6psi

GK98Lude · 09-03-2002, 10:56 AM

Thanks Nt,.. thats not bad at all,.. looks good. I'll have to check into the local shops around and see if any of them have experience with the EMS,.. I read up a bunch on it last night,.. it seems awful tasky just because there is so much you could potentially use it for. I guess that is good and bad. Either that or I may just go with a VAFC and some bigger injectors,..?? I've heard that running 440's with a VAFC with the missing link removed works awfully good. Not using the VAFC hack, but rather wiring it up normally and just taking out the missing link and check valves to allow the map sensor to see boost,.. then set the fuel to -40% on the VAFC across the board and up to 10psi of boost you won't get a check engine light because you are regulating the voltage down through the VAFC. Anyway, that is probably old news to all you guys who have been on here for a while,.. I had just found about it though, it seems like a good option for me,..??

Quaalude · 09-04-2002, 03:27 PM

i did the vafc hack with 440's and i had a bad hesitation whenever i tried to apply full throttle...part throttle, the car ran like a stock turbo car....if you do the hack, then i suggest you get a timing retard device because the hack advances your timing

GK98Lude · 09-04-2002, 10:42 PM

thanks Quaalude, i didn't know that hack advanced your timing. Still looking at some options,..