First off which is going to be more strenious on the engine? Im thinking the Turbo would, because the engine will be boosting more than N20 which you can just use when at the track. This also seems to be the main advantage of the turbo.
While its true N20 needs to be refilled, it seems in the long run it will still be cheaper than turbo. The engine buildups seem to require similiar things for simliar amounts of power. Both will make power in a simliar range (turbo lags until mid Rpm's, as is the delay before you can boost).
So what is the main advantage of going turbo over N20? The turbo kit will cost more (even with the refilling of nitrous) and wiht N20 you can boost only when you want, avoiding unnesecary wear. Also, while it seems with Turbo you always have boost, so its instantly accessisble; wouldnt N20 be the same?
Is there anything I am missing? Anything I am incorrect about? I always wanted to go turbo, but it starting to be less practical.
What is the counterargument in defence of turbo?
Thanks, Jordan
__________________
1999 Prelude Base (daily driver)
1992 Prelude Si 4WS (broken)
ok, nitrous will be worse on your engine. plus A LOT can go wrong with nitrous. and for a good system, you pay at least 1200.
remember that with a turbo, youre not boosting 100% of the time. its similar to a wet system with nitrous. you only start boosting by a certain rpm, usually around 3500 to 4000.
ive seen it happen, its SO easy to blow your engine with nitrous.
but it is cheap hp. remember, price reflects quality.
anything wears down your engine, even N/A it will eventually wear down, power adders just speed up that process. and trust me, you arent going to be using nitrous just for the track. ive had a friend blow THREE engines with n20, and he even built up his block to specifically handle nitrous. granted, these same risks arise with a turbo, but if you install/tune your turbo properly, it should never happen.
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Originally posted by blackomega
ok, nitrous will be worse on your engine. plus A LOT can go wrong with nitrous. and for a good system, you pay at least 1200.
Well a turbo is gonna run about $2800 on the lowend (drag kit), and N20 is gonna run around $700 or so with everything (a dry kit, lets same). Now if I am spraying around a 75 shot, I will probably make similiar HP to running 4-5 lbs on a turbo, right?
Also how is nitrous worse on your engine, can you elaborate? A lot, if not more can go wrong on a turbo kit since there are more components (or so I would think).
Quote:
remember that with a turbo, youre not boosting 100% of the time. its similar to a wet system with nitrous. you only start boosting by a certain rpm, usually around 3500 to 4000.
So this is gonna be very very simliar for both turbo and N20.
Quote:
ive seen it happen, its SO easy to blow your engine with nitrous.
Can you explain how it is easier to blow a motor with nitrous than with a turbo?
Quote:
anything wears down your engine, even N/A it will eventually wear down, power adders just speed up that process. and trust me, you arent going to be using nitrous just for the track. ive had a friend blow THREE engines with n20, and he even built up his block to specifically handle nitrous. granted, these same risks arise with a turbo, but if you install/tune your turbo properly, it should never happen.
Once again im not seeing how a properly tuned turbo is more safe than a properly tuned N20 setup?
I just want to here the reasoning behind your coments so I can make a good decision. Can anyone else help blackomega out in his reasoning? (No flame intended)
-Jordan
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1999 Prelude Base (daily driver)
1992 Prelude Si 4WS (broken)
"One day at a time."
Last edited by Jordan_4WS : 04-18-2002 at 05:22 PM.
This Jordan 4ws gots some good point. I ran nitrous on my 5 gen and it was some kick ass **** and no blown motor. As for horsepower figures I have a dyno sheet here, no scanner tho so its up to you to believe me, and when you hit WOT @ 3k rpm my hp was at 185 or so and climbed from there to 214hp. This is a 50 shot nx wet kit. I haven't dynoed it since I changed to a 75 shot but I would guess its about the same 3k rpm @ 215 and close to 245 max, that'd be more close to 7psi I think. I think thats some pretty decent numbers, even for a turbo kit. Cost wise the nitrous kit cost about $700 for the basic, but I suggest a blanket warmer, purge kit, and some gauges. Theres other things too for the kit, blow down tube, and a pressure release thing<--- not sure whats it called, and a remote opener would be nice but not necessary. I ran around for a lil more then a year with nitrous mostly a 75 shot and my motor seems fine. My only complaint, no BOV. Thats just got to be the best sound IMO. I think thats one of my reasons for going turbo. Oh and theres no sensor for full throttle, its a micro switch located at the throttle cable (atleast for the nx kit it is).
My reason of choosing turbo, it's because I don't want to just go fast on track, I want it to be fast whenever I want.
It's really no big off difference except you will run out n20, but you can't run out of boost. when you encounter some stupid cars that want to piss you off, you don't need to worry about how much n20 you have left, and open the bottle. You can teach them a lesson right away with turbo. and leave him loud BOV sounds.
you can't have bottle connected on street driving, at least that's the regulation here.
Originally posted by NtPReLuDe This Jordan 4ws gots some good point. I ran nitrous on my 5 gen and it was some kick ass **** and no blown motor. As for horsepower figures I have a dyno sheet here, no scanner tho so its up to you to believe me, and when you hit WOT @ 3k rpm my hp was at 185 or so and climbed from there to 214hp. This is a 50 shot nx wet kit. I haven't dynoed it since I changed to a 75 shot but I would guess its about the same 3k rpm @ 215 and close to 245 max, that'd be more close to 7psi I think. I think thats some pretty decent numbers, even for a turbo kit. Cost wise the nitrous kit cost about $700 for the basic, but I suggest a blanket warmer, purge kit, and some gauges. Theres other things too for the kit, blow down tube, and a pressure release thing<--- not sure whats it called, and a remote opener would be nice but not necessary. I ran around for a lil more then a year with nitrous mostly a 75 shot and my motor seems fine. My only complaint, no BOV. Thats just got to be the best sound IMO. I think thats one of my reasons for going turbo. Oh and theres no sensor for full throttle, its a micro switch located at the throttle cable (atleast for the nx kit it is).
That is basically the way I am looking at this. As for the microswwitch, you are right, I was wrong. As for the BOV sound, why dont you keep the N20 and just get one of those N/A BOV valves
-jordan
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1999 Prelude Base (daily driver)
1992 Prelude Si 4WS (broken)
Originally posted by dangerzone My reason of choosing turbo, it's because I don't want to just go fast on track, I want it to be fast whenever I want.
It's really no big off difference except you will run out n20, but you can't run out of boost. when you encounter some stupid cars that want to piss you off, you don't need to worry about how much n20 you have left, and open the bottle. You can teach them a lesson right away with turbo. and leave him loud BOV sounds.
you can't have bottle connected on street driving, at least that's the regulation here.
I see what you mean... But I figure for the extra $2000 or so I can save over turbo, I can afford more than enough N20 and a big enough tank to hold it all. As for opening the bottle, Im almost sure you can do it remotely. And about the regulations, I think turbo is just as illegal as nitrous (atleast here in Cali, where everything is super illegal).
I dont street race, but I will boost on the street sometimes; so what you say is a concern... That is if there is no such thing as a remote bottle opener, which I am almost positive there is.
-jordan
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1999 Prelude Base (daily driver)
1992 Prelude Si 4WS (broken)
There is for sure, remote opener that is. I Know NX makes on as well as zex. I hear that the NX one is the best if you do get nitrous. BOV's are strictly for turbo's and some superchargers, using a bov on a n/a (if that is even possible) is like buying a plastic fake useless inteercooler.
Originally posted by Jordan_4WS
I see what you mean... But I figure for the extra $2000 or so I can save over turbo, I can afford more than enough N20 and a big enough tank to hold it all. As for opening the bottle, Im almost sure you can do it remotely. And about the regulations, I think turbo is just as illegal as nitrous (atleast here in Cali, where everything is super illegal).
I dont street race, but I will boost on the street sometimes; so what you say is a concern... That is if there is no such thing as a remote bottle opener, which I am almost positive there is.
-jordan
Turbo isn't illegal in CA, N20 is.
Turbo wont explode in your car.
Turbo isn't illegal in CA, N20 is.
Turbo wont explode in your car.
Lotsa cars come with turbo stock.
They say nitrous doesnt blow engines, idiots blow engines. Same goes for turbos. The reason more people blow engines with nitrous is 1) more people have nitrous than turbos 2) nitrous is cheap, so people try running it to much. It all comes down to the tuning. A well tuned turbo setup will last. A well tuned nitrous setup will last also. Anything can go wrong with either, and either setup can blow your motor.
Its just that since F&F, everyone wants N20. They dont use it responsibly, so they blow the motors. The same would go for turbos, but most people would rather not shell out the 3-4k for a turbo.
Damn, this thread is starting to get redundant, and i havent gotten any answers as to why nitrous is worse than turbos. Anyone want to give it another shot? (parden the pun)
-Jordan
__________________
1999 Prelude Base (daily driver)
1992 Prelude Si 4WS (broken)
Originally posted by Jordan_4WS First off which is going to be more strenious on the engine? Im thinking the Turbo would, because the engine will be boosting more than N20 which you can just use when at the track. This also seems to be the main advantage of the turbo.
While its true N20 needs to be refilled, it seems in the long run it will still be cheaper than turbo. The engine buildups seem to require similiar things for simliar amounts of power. Both will make power in a simliar range (turbo lags until mid Rpm's, as is the delay before you can boost).
So what is the main advantage of going turbo over N20? The turbo kit will cost more (even with the refilling of nitrous) and wiht N20 you can boost only when you want, avoiding unnesecary wear. Also, while it seems with Turbo you always have boost, so its instantly accessisble; wouldnt N20 be the same?
Is there anything I am missing? Anything I am incorrect about? I always wanted to go turbo, but it starting to be less practical.
What is the counterargument in defence of turbo?
Thanks, Jordan
u say u dont like turbo cause of the lag ...well u cant just hit the button comming off the line and expect to go anywhere , besides most "safe" nitrous kits spray at full throttle without having to hit a button (ZEX,NX Kits) .....as for the cost in the long run u are gonna spend just as much i think.. 1200 dollars is a good price on everything installed to work right.... then u got what is it 30-50 dollar refils ?? a 55hp shot they say last 3 minutes under continuos spray and a 125 shot only 1.5 minutes ...so depending on how much u would be using it that could get pricey ..and like i said in the long run it would probably add up to the same cost but anyway it all depends on what u want to do ,how much power u want to make ,and how fast u want to go ..i chose the turbo its more practical i dont have to make sure im dead stopped before i turn the switch on... i can just go whenever i want like when some dickweed in a vette or T/A or even a stang always trys to run me..hell i even had a viper rev on me the other night and damn it was fast wasnt a stock viper though
u say u dont like turbo cause of the lag ...well u cant just hit the button comming off the line and expect to go anywhere , besides most "safe" nitrous kits spray at full throttle without having to hit a button (ZEX,NX Kits) .....as for the cost in the long run u are gonna spend just as much i think.. 1200 dollars is a good price on everything installed to work right.... then u got what is it 30-50 dollar refils ?? a 55hp shot they say last 3 minutes under continuos spray and a 125 shot only 1.5 minutes ...so depending on how much u would be using it that could get pricey ..and like i said in the long run it would probably add up to the same cost but anyway it all depends on what u want to do ,how much power u want to make ,and how fast u want to go ..i chose the turbo its more practical i dont have to make sure im dead stopped before i turn the switch on... i can just go whenever i want like when some dickweed in a vette or T/A or even a stang always trys to run me..hell i even had a viper rev on me the other night and damn it was fast wasnt a stock viper though
With the turbo lag, I was using that to show it being the same as N20. As for the cost, I still think n20 will be cheaper. The n20 setup is about $700. Turbo setup will be around $3000... Both setups on the lower end.
-Jordan
__________________
1999 Prelude Base (daily driver)
1992 Prelude Si 4WS (broken)
Originally posted by Jordan_4WS
With the turbo lag, I was using that to show it being the same as N20. As for the cost, I still think n20 will be cheaper. The n20 setup is about $700. Turbo setup will be around $3000... Both setups on the lower end.
A properly tuned nitrous system is no worse for your car than a properly tuned turbo system. An improperly tuned nitrous system is probably worse, because it will provoke a lean condition leading to high temperatures and detonation quicker than an improperly tuned turbo system. Most NOS systems do not use a progressive controller or additional FPR setup, which is very stupid. Most turbos have additional fuel managment so they're almost assuredly going to start out way too rich. In addition, turbochargers and superchargers by their design increase boost smoothly without spiking (boost spikes kill turbo engines FAST). If you just inject NOS without a progressive controller, you're introducing an impulse to a mechanical system. Impulses are bad news. At a high enough RPM, it's not too big a deal, but at lower RPMs, it's bad. Same thing with going to full boost at 2000rpm on a turbo or supercharger in 5th gear (yes, that's impossible, but for the sake of arguement).
If you don't dyno or either, you're more likely to kill your motor with a lean-running nitrous system than a overly-rich turbo.
So, that said, more power = more fuel + more air = more heat = higher cylinder pressure. For a given HP at a even A/F ratio, those numbers look the same if you're using nitrous, superchargers, or turbochargers.
A properly tuned nitrous system is safe. A properly tuned turbo system is safe. A properly tuned supercharger system is safe. All three have the capability to blow up your engine, just in different ways, with different risks, and different failure modes. That said, most people think more before they spend $5000 on a turbo or supercharger setup than they would before spending $399 on a nitrous kit.
ok, if you want to get a nitrous system, dont try to point out all of its good features to us. just get it. you can spend 700 dollars and blow your engine, or you can spend 1200 and have a moderately reliable n20 system.
or you can spend 3-5k on a turbo system and have boost on tap whenever you want it. we have given plenty of justification so dont try to cancel it out with some sort of nitrous is the same argument. if you want nitrous, get it. but talking to someone who has owned and still owns a nitrous car and a turbo car, they say the turbo is way better. you dont have to refill, you can race all out at any time. some ****er in his Si wants to mess with you, you can blow him away. Or you could lose to a car that you may normally beat with a full botle and say, "ohh, no, dude, were racing again when i have more pressure in my bottle, it wasnt full".
you can be the king of the streets... or... just sometimes...
somebody doesnt put a turbo on because its easy or cheaper, if nitrous was so superior, why would there even be FI?
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"The U.S. did not need a permission slip from foreigners to defend its own interests. "
Originally posted by blackomega ok, if you want to get a nitrous system, dont try to point out all of its good features to us. just get it. you can spend 700 dollars and blow your engine, or you can spend 1200 and have a moderately reliable n20 system.
or you can spend 3-5k on a turbo system and have boost on tap whenever you want it. we have given plenty of justification so dont try to cancel it out with some sort of nitrous is the same argument. if you want nitrous, get it. but talking to someone who has owned and still owns a nitrous car and a turbo car, they say the turbo is way better. you dont have to refill, you can race all out at any time. some ****er in his Si wants to mess with you, you can blow him away. Or you could lose to a car that you may normally beat with a full botle and say, "ohh, no, dude, were racing again when i have more pressure in my bottle, it wasnt full".
you can be the king of the streets... or... just sometimes...
somebody doesnt put a turbo on because its easy or cheaper, if nitrous was so superior, why would there even be FI?
I just wanted to say a few things, my NXkit with the blanket warmer is reliable ($1100 installed). No boost spikes and a/f ratio stayed between 12-13 from 3k rpms to 7.5k rpms. This is with no tuning, I had nothing to tune with, no vafc, no cam gears, nothing. Just headers and intake. Now ask anyone on the FI board and they will tell that in the $3000 turbo kit, theres should be a RRFPR which is moderately reliable. So if you want a reliable turbo, bust out another $1000 for a stand alone. Then pay to tune it. How much boost would you say is safe on internals? 8-9psi I think is pushing it. And how much HP would you expect from your basic turbo kit, 7psi? 250? I got about 245 on the 75 shot. And BTW nitrous is FI.
In no way am I saying nitrous is superior, I'll be trading my nitrous setup for a turbo. I'm just saying it is pracitcal. BTW have you ran nitrous before or turbo before? And $1500 in 10lbs nitrous fills @ $30 a pop (I get it for $26.50/lbs) means 50 refills, I've filled my bottle less then 10 times in the year and a half that I had it. So lets just say 10 refills per year gives me 5 years of nitrous fun for the cost of a basic turbo kit. Do you expect to run your turbo for 5 years with no maintaince?
Just a thought, ultimately its all up to you, its your car and these are our thoughts and opinions.
I just wanted to say a few things, my NXkit with the blanket warmer is reliable ($1100 installed). No boost spikes and a/f ratio stayed between 12-13 from 3k rpms to 7.5k rpms. This is with no tuning, I had nothing to tune with, no vafc, no cam gears, nothing. Just headers and intake. Now ask anyone on the FI board and they will tell that in the $3000 turbo kit, theres should be a RRFPR which is moderately reliable. So if you want a reliable turbo, bust out another $1000 for a stand alone. Then pay to tune it. How much boost would you say is safe on internals? 8-9psi I think is pushing it. And how much HP would you expect from your basic turbo kit, 7psi? 250? I got about 245 on the 75 shot. And BTW nitrous is FI.
In no way am I saying nitrous is superior, I'll be trading my nitrous setup for a turbo. I'm just saying it is pracitcal. BTW have you ran nitrous before or turbo before? And $1500 in 10lbs nitrous fills @ $30 a pop (I get it for $26.50/lbs) means 50 refills, I've filled my bottle less then 10 times in the year and a half that I had it. So lets just say 10 refills per year gives me 5 years of nitrous fun for the cost of a basic turbo kit. Do you expect to run your turbo for 5 years with no maintaince?
Just a thought, ultimately its all up to you, its your car and these are our thoughts and opinions.
Thats exactly what I am trying to say
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1992 Prelude Si 4WS (broken)
dont come in here and ask that if your mind is already made up!
and as a matter of fact, i have a friend who has owned a rx7, supra, and a mustang 5.0, modded, with nitrous. he currently owns a turbo eclipse that is putting down 550 hp
in his opinion, and many others, the turbo is better, once you have a turbo, you wont want to go back. ive experienced both and trust me, turbo is way funner.
"sorry, outta spray, if i ever see you again, ill race you"
__________________
"Live... I'm coming."
G-Dub/Cheney 04
"The U.S. did not need a permission slip from foreigners to defend its own interests. "
Originally posted by blackomega then go get nitrous and dont even ask!!!
dont come in here and ask that if your mind is already made up!
and as a matter of fact, i have a friend who has owned a rx7, supra, and a mustang 5.0, modded, with nitrous. he currently owns a turbo eclipse that is putting down 550 hp
in his opinion, and many others, the turbo is better, once you have a turbo, you wont want to go back. ive experienced both and trust me, turbo is way funner.
"sorry, outta spray, if i ever see you again, ill race you"
First off, no need to get defensive. I came here to see what the advantages are of turbo. It seems to me the only real advantage is that you "dont have t
Most of the time it stays in vacumm, unless you right foot wants boost.
and damn it was fast wasnt a stock viper though