i have a JDM H22A swap in my 2000 prelude and i just ordered the JRSC and should have it soon. im looking at installing it myself with the help of friends. Anyone have a JDM H22A w/ JRSC and if so what kinda or HP are you running with How many boost? and Will i need anything other than the JRSC set itself? Maybe a Tune? Thanks.
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On the Way: JRSC is on the way from japan. .
Looking For:P28 or P72 and S300, Mugen Headers
^^ you missed it ... that was a joke from Quiet Storm.
Anyway, JDM v. USDM is a change in cams, compression, emission and an ECU, that's it. You will need to do a slight tune/adjustment and that should be all. I recommend getting a SA ECU and a tune.
I installed one of the JRSC kits a couple of years ago... On the mechanical side, it's a really nice quality kit and not too hard to install. Just keep a spare SC drive belt on hand because they get hot and fail after a while. On the electrical side, ditch the piggy-back ems that comes with it and go with someting that is tunable. The ring lands broke off one of my pistons aften not too long thanks to the crappy tune.
I installed one of the JRSC kits a couple of years ago... On the mechanical side, it's a really nice quality kit and not too hard to install. Just keep a spare SC drive belt on hand because they get hot and fail after a while. On the electrical side, ditch the piggy-back ems that comes with it and go with someting that is tunable. The ring lands broke off one of my pistons aften not too long thanks to the crappy tune.
thanks, by the way would you happen to have dyno results for you car? or maybe a recommended ecu?
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On the Way: JRSC is on the way from japan. .
Looking For:P28 or P72 and S300, Mugen Headers
Hey, read my forum in "Members Rides" under "the best prelude in the world" and ask me some questions since you're trying to go the route I too went (in a way)
I just wanted to say that Geramy on here is probably the one running the best setup and making the most horsepower with the JRSC. He's got a custom pulley setup that uses a small toothed belt, runs 18psi altogether, has a completely built engine, has the supercharger ported, and has modified the fuel system to use E85 pump gas (higher octane). That's alot of work for 300whp. I don't believe your setup will get that far, and regardless of what people say, spend the money and get the engine rebuilt. The FRM sleeves of the H22 family does not like any kind of forced induction. It will mess up your piston rings as well.
Although my numbers are small, it shows the inefficiency of the supercharger itself and it also shows how you must find a way to increase the psi and flow if you want to keep getting more from it. A simple way I'm going to hit my 300whp mark is now go with some nitrous because the motor is just begging for more air (and yes fuel, but that can be added witha push of a button on the laptop).
Read the other forums because they have very good advice as well.
well can get 93 octane over here and thats what i used N/A. Shell V-power the only way to go. But i really dont want to do alot of boost. i kinda want to stay in the 9-11lbs range for awhile. cause im just starting to boost, and dont really want to throw a rod. so i was thinking of getting the SC and probably going to a 9psi pulley before i even install it. But do you think i will need to upgrade the internals as far as pistons,rods,cams? And if so, do you think the Type S Pistons and Rods can handle the job? This is what im looking at for my winter project:
-JRSC
-Mugen Header
-450 or 550cc injectors (give your opinions)
-P28 or P72 with S300
-Type S Pistons and Rods (Give your Opinions)
-Bored Throttle Body (Havent seen them yet)
-And if enough money, and if they even tune hondas, An AMS Tune.
All on my 2000 Prelude JDM H22 Swap.
__________________
On the Way: JRSC is on the way from japan. .
Looking For:P28 or P72 and S300, Mugen Headers
Well first of all, scratch the octane question, it doesn't really matter with the boost we're running. You might be able to squeak out 5hp more with the 93 octane at that level because you could pull less timing in the upper range.
Secondly, don't bother with the endyne kit for 9psi, if you read my article you'll see I bought a very simple to find and cheap to buy 98-02 Honda Accord Crankshaft pulley. It's larger than the h22's, but it'll bump up your psi because it's running faster at the same crank speed and therefore turning the large serpentine belt faster which will make the little serpentine belt run faster too (= more boost).
If you want to get above that, that's another story. I hear a Water/Methanol Injection kit placed before the throttle body adds another PSI while adding the benefit of warding off pre-detonation.
Just because I'm a jerk, I'd like to add that water/methanol isn't designed to lower your intake temperatures when injected like many have wrote, instead, it's designed to absorb the heat in the combustion chamber as compression rises because if you can decrease the heat as compression rises, it'll decrease the pressure that heat makes and decrease the chance for your fuel to preignite (see: engine knock). The methanol's chemical properties might help release a small amount of energy once it gets ignited when combustion happens, but I don't think on our scale it's anything to get excited about.
The fact of the matter is, the "mist" doesn't exist in that form or in the intake areas long enough for the heat around it to start embedding itself into the mist and changing its chemical state from liquid to solid until the actual combustion starts.
To get back on track, thirdly, I don't think the rods are going to be your biggest worry, I'd worry about the piston rings first. The piston rings in H22's are kind of weak in the sense that they are made out of a different material than blocks that are iron or have iron sleeves. Remember, all H22's have FRM (Fiber Reinforced Metal (or is it material?)) sleeves. What this means to you is that your sleeves are kind of like a ceramic. Ceramic is great because of the low thermal expansion rates, reduction in friction and when maintained properly, low wear and tear on both walls and piston rings. All of these things are for the purpose of increased fuel economy (lower engine friction from the walls + increased combustion sealing from the low expansion rate of FRM = more power and fuel economy from traditional materials) and increased reliability with decreased maintenance. And all of those things are pretty much what Honda engines are all about, right?
But since the FRM is like a ceramic, the rings are a bit softer than most engines rings and when Forced Induction is applied and pressure and heat increase at a faster rate, the rings will melt and the melting material will throw off the balance of the piston instantly and it will begin scraping against the sleeve walls and then you'll say bye bye to the piston, the walls and if it was under alot of pressure and a rod is pushing all of this along, the rod will die as well.
Most will say that proper tuning will go along way, which is a great textbook answer, but lets look into what "proper tuning" means in this instance. Because after all, proper tuning is a variable for every car.
Proper Tuning is going to mean that the engine management you choose will only have two functions, and that is to make the engine run as RICH as possible and to PULL alot of timing. This is why... remember in the paragraph I just wrote explaining why water/methanol doesn't lower intake temps, its use is to absorb heat (see: energy) which decreases pressure? Well gasoline is like that too. You may have a preconceived notion in your head that gasoline likes to burn instantly and burn hot, but remember gasoline is a chemical substance like everything else. And gasoline has additives in it to increase octane (well, that and the way oil is pressurized and heated in the refining process which makes a higher octane) anyway!, the increase in octane is the gasoline's ability to RESIST combustion. After all, when you're pumping 30psi (just an example) in the motor, the last thing you want to do is for your fuel to ignite too soon as the valves seal themselves and the piston is reaching Top Dead Center and the pressure suddenly makes the mixture preignite and with nowhere for the extreme exhaust pressure to go, it decides to push down on the piston which'll either destroy the piston or snap the rod clean off or both.
So how you beat that is to add way too much fuel, because too much gasoline will mean that there is more liquid to turn into gas (which takes more energy to do which decreases efficiency) is going to increase the amount of pressure (see: energy) to actually ignite it all. You'll end up with a really sooty exhaust (due to unburnt fuel), really poor fuel economy (due to too much fuel being injected) and not as much power as you could be making by injecting that much fuel because power typically rises as the ratio leans out (to a certain extent). Based on what I read, 12.5 A/F Ratio is probably ideal for Wide Open Throttle, 13:1 is playing kind of dangerous but still is probably making hella power. Just as an FYI, my car is set up to be around 12.5:1 A/F (12.5 parts air for every one part fuel) for wide open throttle. It was initially very low (like 10.5:1) and I was putting out 36 fewer horsepower than I ended up with at the end with that better A/F ratio.
Ok, let's talk about timing, here's what timing basically does. It times when your intake valves are going to open and when they're going to close and it does the exact same two things for your exhaust valves and based on that, it will time when your distributor sends the current for your sparkplug to fire. But we're only concerned with the valves right now. By modifying timing, you're opening the valves earlier or later. If you pull timing, you're going to be opening the exhaust valves earlier. You ideally want the exhaust valves to open when the piston reaches Top Dead Center (the point of maximum power where the air/fuel mix is completely burnt as much as it can be and the pressure is at its absolute highest) but by pulling timing, you're having the exhaust valves open sooner because the mixture has already ignited and the pressure is becoming greater than the combustion chamber can hold when it's all sealed up and so you need a way for the pressure to release itself before it finds an alternate means (see: punching a hole through your oil pan with a broken rod). Obviously you're not going to make hardly any power at all if you're opening your exhaust valves too soon because you're evacuating the exhaust prematurely and it's the force of that pressure from combustion that forces the piston back down, which won't put as much force on the crankshaft, which will stop turning as fast which will slow down the transmission and not have enough power to move the wheels as fast which we all know is how power gets put to the ground.
Is this too in depth? Sorry if it is. It's just that if you get the general idea of the combustion engine, you'll understand how power is made better and more efficient. It's one reason to understand that high quality, purpose built parts can increase power, it's another to realize how exactly they go about making (or losing) power. I want you to you to understand that it is important for you to build and reinforce your H22 before any forced induction is done just because it's a good investment, makes sense and will offer returns never before realized until you do it.
People make big power on big turbos because the turbo has the ability to move massive amounts of air, and they just make sure they saturate that air enough with fuel and control the combustion chamber pressures enough that they won't start destroying their internals (Honda Bob makes 400whp on a 1.6L SOHC Civic engine with a big enough turbo, oh, read my thread if you don't know who I'm talking about).
Your 11:1 compression ratio is going to take at least 93 octane if you're running 9psi and that'll be it. If you want any more psi, you're going to need a higher octane of fuel, pull timing or inject way more fuel which will rob performance (and there is a limit to the fuel saturation trick, it's not a magical be-all do-all).
There's alot more I could explain in here like flow rates (see: cfm) of the head that regulate this (which is why ported heads make sense for increased compression ratio) and also exhaust scavenging (which still makes sense for F/I inductions ESPECIALLY with a supercharger).
The Mugen Header is not really made for F/I, get yourself a HYTECH, FMR or SMSP header if you want to get better performance from your supercharger.
This post has gotten too long, time to stop so that people can write in to try and correct me or give their own opinion.
ok, sorry that was really in depth, but im gonna re-read it tomorrow when im not half asleep Ok So ive heard HYTECH is the best so thats what i want, then the JRSC. And Accord Pully. But is there maybe a list of parts you can create for me from head to toe, so i can start buying, and checking my options? now like i said my goal is 300whp without Spray. i dont want spray, i want good reliable hp thats always at the tip of my foot. the methenol injection sounded like a good idea, but i dont want to really do past 9lbs for the moment, But what is a list of items, brands, and location of stuff i should look into or better yet purchase?
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On the Way: JRSC is on the way from japan. .
Looking For:P28 or P72 and S300, Mugen Headers
i guess basically what I am trying to get him to realize is that when you go about building a car, I wouldn't start out by saying "this is my horsepower number." I would start by saying "this is my budget, what do I want to do with it?" And with that number, you may as well realize that 2/3 of that will actually be spent on things you want to spend it on and the other 1/3 will be spent on things you overlooked, need to replace along the way or cover for a part that goes over budget.
I don't think that any of us truly have unlimited funds to build our Preludes, or we would have started with a much different platform. But it is commendable to get a car like this to perform in a way that higher priced newer cars do. With that said, carefully evaluate your purchases. I know he has a budget because quite simply, who would buy a used supercharger from Japan? The only thing you have going for you is the price. Otherwise it's coming from a country that you're not in by a person you don't know and in a condition that can only be judged by pictures (which he hasn't posted for those with superchargers to grade the condition of).
I posted my long spiel about how an engine works (specifically our H22A4) to give him some insight that I hope he can use to imagine how the choices he makes on the products he chooses to buy will affect his build. If he wants to use 11:1 compression ratio and throws in 9psi and uses 93 octane, that's probably pushing the borders of the limits of his engine, but I've never met somebody who is boosting on stock internals with much success in terms of making higher power or long term reliability. It's usually one or the other.
An engine build is crucial and then you can let the games begin. Should you have access to 100 octane, you could probably boost 12psi on 11:1 CR and the 150 degrees+ intake temperatures because you really need to ward of pre-detonation.
People can say "do everything right the first time and don't skip steps" only so much before it takes the builder either a catastrophic failure or the realization that their HP levels are now at maximum capacity and if they had spent an extra $500 they could have so much more. I am telling him do this right the first time because I know you don't have enough money to blow that engine and buy a new one or get it rebuilt.
your right, i want to talk to you about my winter project, really im serious. so far on anyone on this site, you have taken the most time and reliable knowledge that anyone on here has ever given me, now this car is gonna be a winter project. now for winter im gonna work 2 full times, and only have to pay out 600 monthly in bills, rest with be gas, food, necessities, and car. so my team just tells me to do as many bolt ons as i can to reach my 300whp mark, but i really dont think my engine will hold up well, now i dont want to spray. but i do want boost (JRSC) and other than that, im gonna need a lot of help on raising the other 60-70 hp. i dont want to sound creppy, but i kinda want your number so i can call you when i store my car and start buying. So i will probably built the head, but im not a mechanic, so im not greatly car intelligent under the hood. but i was thinking of getting an AMS tune out of chicago, but i dont even know if they even mess with hondas. but im sure ill have about $1500-$2000 to play with a month for about 4 months of winter. and im not so sure on this SC either, my buddy's friend in NY owns a shop and he said he found a new one in japan, and its gonna run me 700, but my buddy talked him down to 550, so my buddy owed me a little big of money so i decided to let him pay for it, and he said when it comes in ill just have to pay him $200, cause he owed me $300, but its been awhile. so maybe its bull****, but either way im getting a SC whether i have to buy it straight from MOSS itself. So please prepreludesh stand beside me in this and help me until the end, so far your the most knowledgable ive met on this forum.
thanks
__________________
On the Way: JRSC is on the way from japan. .
Looking For:P28 or P72 and S300, Mugen Headers
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