i've been doing a lot of searching and can't find anything solid with any of the previous posts.. so i figure i try one of my own
i would like to attempt the 2g eclipse turbo setup on my h23
i don't know if anybody has tried this yet or if it is a complete waist of time.. i know people have customed the manifold to fit the head by doing a lil drilling..
if this can be done for under $750.. i think it'll be worth a try
otherwise.. there's a company that makes a turbo set-up for somethign like $1600 on turbo-kits.com
keep in mind.... i'm not looking to go crazy.. i would be very happy with 3-5 psi (please don't say i'm stupid or anything.. i just want to know if it can be done)
I've seen this done on a f22 accord (same exhaust bolt pattern as h23) You have to redrill some of the holes on the manifold for it to fit your car (pretty easy to do). It can be done VERY cheaply if you find the parts at the right place (www.dsmtrader.com)
manifold from 98 gsx
the t25 turbo from the gsx
intercooler from srt-4
friend is goign to make all the piping
v-afc (with hack) (is goign with the s-afc any better or it really doesn't matter?)
440 dsm injectors
going to get an external oil cooler
(i didn't know i needed a fuel pump)
(didn't know i needed ignition)
is the ignition to retard the timing for detonation prevention?
and all the little things that can come later such as the turbo timer, bov, boost gauge..
if anybody knows of anything else.. i'm all ears...
man.. i'm such a newb at turbos.. guess i gotta use the search button a lot more
i'm telling you guys.. if there was more people contributing to this conversation.. i bet you at least 20 more ludes would be boosting by the end of summer
turbo for under $800... who wouldn't
o.k.. so the $800 is made up.. i really have no clue what it's goign to cost.. all i know is that the turbo and the manifold itself are cheap.. 440cc dsm injectors aren't too expensive.. used v-afc i think run a lil under 150 now.. piping is i think about 200.. intercooler from srt-4 prob will start to go under 150 once summer hits and their owners start to upgrade.. not sure what else there is ... and that's why i need people's help.. i want somebody to make a list of all the things needed for a turbo set-up and all the optional things too.. and then i want the admin to archive it so that any newb like me in the future can go to the archives and look at this title "things you need for a turbo set-up"
you can add some steelbraided lines for the oil line to the turbo.
you dont need to upgrade the ignition. The ignition timing boost retard is a unit that retards the ignition timing per lb of boost, will work well with the Vafc hack.
If you would like a FMIC(Front mount Intercooler) I would recommend the starion/conquest unit. Alot easier to find unless the dodge unit is avail. Volvo also made a FMIC on one of their cars, not sure which.
If your friend is going to weld all the piping that is great, but for those who cant afford or access a welder. You can buy thick rubber pipe fittings at home depot that can connect the piping
Fuel pump is insurance, but at the age of our cars its almost neccesary.
Last edited by irishpilot : 02-03-2004 at 12:38 AM.
i'm going this route also, i've been putting it together for a little over 6 months, I have almost everything i need except the S/V-afc and my intercooler/piping. I'd stay away from the t-25 turbo's they're way to small for our cars. You can look at some mhi (mitsubishi) turbo compressor maps at this site. http://www.stealth316.com/2-3s-compflowmaps.htm, if you do the math for an H23, for 5 psi of boost you need around 160 cfm of air flow at 3600rpm, and 300 at 6500rpm. The TD05H-14b from the manual 1st gen. eclipses is on the small size, even the larger 16g isn't big enough. I know the whole point of using eclipse parts is to save money, so at least get a 14b, the t25's are way too small. However you can buy a used 14b and get a much larger compressor wheel put on it. For more info on this check out www.vfaq.com,
Here he rebuilds a 14b with a 16g wheel, other people in the eclipse community have gone as large as a 20g. So this is possible to save a lot of money. And get a decent size turbo, with good numbers. If you need a list mine would be
used 14b turbo ~$100 (upgrade to 18g compressor wheel for $120+balancing)
used dsm manifold ~$25
450cc eclipse manual injectors ~$50
used S/v afc ~ $200
eclipse smic or starion fmic ~$40-130
map bypass ~$45 (you could use a plastic aquarium piece ~$8)
mandrel bent piping from jc whitney (for downpipe/ic pipes)~$50
1st gen eclipse bov ~$30
autometer boost gauge, oil temp gauge, a/f gauge ~$75
ss oil lines,vacuum hose and T fittings, bolts/screws, gaskets ~ $100
some form of pcv system, aka a dry sump breather tank ~$65
you might want an msd btm, but i'm not going to worry about it at 5psi. I've invested about $400 and i'm almost there, i'm a poor college student with no job so cheap is my only option. Check out ebay, thepartstrader.com, dsmtrader.com, homemadeturbo.com, If you look hard enough you can find good deals on everything you need. I'm hesitant to post all this before I complete my project, I'd like to have less competition in getting my parts, but for fellow luders I'll help anyday.
i really apreciate your post.. i had no clue about the t25 being too small... my friend with a dsm did tell me to get some other turbo but it all leaked out of my ear
i can understand why you would want to keep it hush hush because if there is less of a demand the price stays down.. supply and demand.. but on a prelude board.. and the fact that this is goign to stay within the h23 community.. i don't think it's goign to get out of hand.. people here going to spend the 1500 on a h22 swap before they think about the mitsu turbo route..
hell.. i didn't even know about the mitsu turbo route till a couple days ago
Originally posted by tenzola how will the t25 react in the h23?.. i mean.. if i get it for now.. i can always change out later right...
=)
There will be almost no lag present with the t25 in the h23. if your not going to be pushing a lot of boost you should be fine. If you push a lot of boost through it will be very less than efficient and will have trouble pushing the air through.
Originally posted by ibanezeros used 14b turbo ~$100 (upgrade to 18g compressor wheel for $120+balancing)
used dsm manifold ~$25
450cc eclipse manual injectors ~$50
used S/v afc ~ $200
eclipse smic or starion fmic ~$40-130
map bypass ~$45 (you could use a plastic aquarium piece ~$8)
mandrel bent piping from jc whitney (for downpipe/ic pipes)~$50
1st gen eclipse bov ~$30
autometer boost gauge, oil temp gauge, a/f gauge ~$75
ss oil lines,vacuum hose and T fittings, bolts/screws, gaskets ~ $100
some form of pcv system, aka a dry sump breather tank ~$65
You wouldn't want any sort of MAP limiter if you are using the afc hack. I would highly recommend some sort of boost/timing control, such as an MSD BTM. The afc hack causes ignition advance during boost, which will probably give you detonation problems in the mid range.
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Last edited by sharkcohen : 02-04-2004 at 10:37 AM.
thank you everybody for contributing to this conversation.. i thought i was the only one out there for a while and got kindda down on myself for being sucha newb with turbos
i don't mind the no lag part... i kinda like that aspect of it... only cause i completly forgot about it (having 3 preludes and all)
but since i really want to boost 3-5psi.. whichever it may be... i think i'm goign to test out the t25 for now.. this all won't happen till i get my motor rebuilt.. which i'm doing now if you've read my other posts
so....in addition to the v-afc hack.. i want to buy a map limiter so that my ignition won't advance in the mid range... am i getting that right?.. also.. where and how much is this map limitor.. and is it needed when boosting 3-5 psi?
Originally posted by tenzola so....in addition to the v-afc hack.. i want to buy a map limiter so that my ignition won't advance in the mid range...
Read what I posted above. By the nature of how the afc hack works, one would not want to use a MAP limiting device. The afc must receive the voltage produced by the MAP sensor during boost for the afc hack to work. Essentially, the hack itself limits the voltage seen by the stock ecu. The stock ecu will advance ignition when using the hack because during boost it will be receiving a false low MAP signal, indicative of a lower engine load than actual.
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Last edited by sharkcohen : 02-04-2004 at 04:26 PM.
wow... i'm really confused now.. i don't want to blow up...
if i run 3-5 psi and use the v-afc hack.. i will need to buy this part (msd btm) and everything will be a-ok
=)
and about the srt-4 ic.. people told me to go with the starion one instead.. i have no clue why... is it a price and availability thing?.. or is it a better matched ic with the t25?.. also.. from what i hear.. if i have the wrong size piping and ic.. it will hurt my performance rather then help it
Originally posted by tenzola wow... i'm really confused now.. i don't want to blow up...
if i run 3-5 psi and use the v-afc hack.. i will need to buy this part (msd btm) and everything will be a-ok
The MSD BTM will allow you to pull a set amount of timing per pound of boost.
I'm assuming these GSX T25 turbos have internal wastegates. One thing to keep in mind is that there is going to be a minimum full boost level produced by the turbo, governed by the internal wastegate. I would doubt that this minimum is as low as 3 psi, it's probably more like 5-6 psi, and then again it could be higher. Anyone know?
With the large injectors and low boost, you don't need to upgrade the fuel pump. However, if your fuel pump is old you might want to consider replacing it for insurance.
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Last edited by sharkcohen : 02-05-2004 at 03:53 AM.
dang... it's goign to be boosting over 9 psi... now i guess i really need to get a boost controller and set that thing down to 4... also.. if i have the piping made a lil bigger.. it should reduce the psi figure right?.. more volume to fill up
also.. i've decided to go without the balance shafts.. does anybody know where to get the plugs to plug up the hole.. i e-mailed the guy from honda-tech that made some.. but he hasn't gotten back to me yet
i'll shoot that question over in the n/a section...
Originally posted by tenzola dang... it's goign to be boosting over 9 psi... now i guess i really need to get a boost controller and set that thing down to 4...
A boost controller can only raise the boost. You cannot boost lower than the pressure supplied by the wastegate.
