How do you know when to upgrade fuel components? I ordered a turbo system today and it will take a month or so for it to be made. In the mean time I am gathering parts to prepare. I bought 550cc RC injectors and plan on getting either Walbro or Bosch fuel pump (which is quieter?).
I plan only running it 7psi until I have enough money for bottom end work. Other parts are taken care of, I just am unsure about the fuel components like fuel rail, larger lines, fpr. Thanks.
MaxRev kit. I guess it's going to take a bit of work to install it as the piping for it is not a simple bolt on. It will have to be welded on by someone. Otherwise, the parts are top notch from what I can make out from thirty some pages of discussion and pics.
Thanks DirtyLude. That was what I was hoping to hear. I will be using either Hondata, Haltech, or Unichip for fuel management. I am hoping the Unichip will work with my setup. Otherwise I'll go with Hondata or Haltech. I'll know in about a month when I go to discuss the install with a tuner.
I've not done much research on Unichip and Haltech. I've read plenty on Hondata. The ONLY thing I don't like about Hondata is I just can't tune it myself. I am not willing to spend $1000+ for the 4b plus the chip burner, harness, and a new ecu. There is no tuner near me. The closest one is in VA.
There is a Unichip and Haltech tuner near me. Both will do what I need apparently but Unichip will do it for less. I haven't picked a definite one yet, as I haven't yet visited the tuner to see the Unichip in action. But from what I hear it will definitely meet my needs for less than Haltech. Haltech was $1200 then another $700 or so for tuning and install. Unichip will be about $500 less.
I don't know a whole lot about the Unichip, just what I read in the advertisements. It says it's a piggyback like the PMS and not a standalone controller. If that's the case, I wouldn't bother with it.
__________________ DirtyLude
Mark Higgins
Toronto Prelude Club www.hondaprelude.to
Iranman notified me of another standalone unit on the market. I emailed the company and am waiting on their reply. I hope they answer all my questions so I can see if it's a viable solution to what I need.
I know someone who is getting the Unichip installed on a 5th gen turbocharged Prelude, so I'll wait for that outcome. In the meantime, thanks to Iranman for introducing me to another possibility. More choices/optioins is good!
Hehe, the product is Link. The site is www.carmodifications.com.
I don't know how Iranman finds products like this. I've never heard of this unit nor did it come up on my searches when I was looking for a unit. It seems like it's new though, since they say the introductory pricing is over now.
It's been around for a while. Do a search on the honda-tech forced induction forum. $1000.00 for the unit. $277.00 for the handheld tuning module, and $70.00 for the PC link if you want to data log. It doesn't sound like a deal to me.
The PC link only datalogs and downloads maps programmed with the handset controller, you can't tune with it. 128 load points for ignition and fuel. Coolant temp correction only. No thanks.
__________________ DirtyLude
Mark Higgins
Toronto Prelude Club www.hondaprelude.to
The site states that the unit can be tuned through a laptop with PCLink software and a serial interface. This is one of the questions I posed to them in the email. I just need something that will let me install it and even tune it without too much trouble. I would like to keep the price around $1200 if possible for purchase, install, and tuning. If I can install it and tune it, then even better. I am very wary of installing electronics in my car though.
I will have about $1900 for the turbo install, and purchase of the engine management unit with install and tuning by the time the turbo gets to me. So that's what I have to work with. Is this feasible?
I think you're talking about the PCLink that's advertised on the main page. That specifies it works with the Link Plus. The Link Plus is not a plug in ECU and it's $1320.00 including the serial cable.
Is the 550cc injectors included in the $1900.00? The cheapest solution is probably a Hondata 2b, then.
$550.00 for the 2b groupbuy, $240 for the connector, $150.00 for the ECU, and another $50.00 to modify the ECU, unless you do it yourself. What does that work out to $1000.00.... You'd save a bit of money, but not much.
__________________ DirtyLude
Mark Higgins
Toronto Prelude Club www.hondaprelude.to
The HondaLink unit is 'pclink' enabled now (so the site states) and according to the info, pclink allows you to 'alter' functions of pclink with a computer. I know info on sites are biased to make your product seem flawless so I'll have to take it with a grain of salt.
Hondata would be good but I would have to take to a tuner for proper setup. The closest one to me is VA, about 3.5 hours away. I already purchased the 550cc injectors so that's not part of $1900.
Hondata 2b $550
Harness from c-speedracing for $200
P72 $280 used
ecu modification $50
This would be fine but what about tuning? Maybe the AEM unit will be good and someone will try it. I still have at least a month to go. Thanks for all the info!
I guess piggyback is not the way to go. Here is the reply...
If you plan to turbocharge your car, I do not recommend that you get a Piggyback system. They are just not tuneable enough. Both the LINK1 and Link2 are made as standalone units. However since the LINK1 does not have all provisions for a daily driven car, such as aircon control, and idle air control and Purge control solenoid for the charcoal canister, we usually recommend that the LINK1 be wired in Parallel with the stock computer. The LINK2 is a complete stanadlone computer in which you can unplug the factory computer altogether. We now have adapter harnesses that we sell for both the Link2 and the HondaLINK. The adapter harness for the theLINK2 is $175 and the adpater harness for HondaLINK is $260.
These are your two best options to replace your ecu altogether.:
HondaLINK(with base maps for INTEGRA GSR) $998 Now PCLINK enabled
SerialLINK (Laptop interface) $70
Optional Tuning MOdule $277
Adapter Harness( not sure if you need it, looking into it right now, Factory harness will plug into HondaLINK, just have to confirm if pinouts are the same, I believe a few might be different) $260
ECU shell if shell is different than the civic and Integra ECU shell
$75
So Adapter harness and ecu may not be needed, I should know by the end of
the day.
Differences between the two systems. Both will be designed for perfect plug and play. You will be able to configure Fuel maps, timing maps, Idle control, Air con control, Vtec, Secondary Intake butterflies, Rev limit, boost control on both units. The additional features the LINK2 has over the HondaLINk is Launch control, antilag control, two additional outputs, intercooler spray output , built-in 2 bar map sensor and shift light output. It can also be configured for a different car in the future if you decide to sell the prelude and buy another car. So to answer your question
which unit is better, they will both handle all your needs, but the LINK2 will be more flexible and have more options.Also The HondaLINK is confiured to handle the stock honda map sensor upto ~10psi and you will need optional 3 bar map to go beyond that while the LINK2 has a built-in 2 bar map sensor
which can handle ~18-20psi before needed a 3 bar map sensor. Both units will come with a base fuel and timing map to start the car. You will need to go in those and fine tune them. It usually takes about 2-3 days to properly tune a car. One day to read and play with the program, another to get car running satisfactory and third day to tune. Experienced tuners usually get
their cars running in one day after they figure out how all the controls work in the program.
As for the other units. Haltech is a lot harder to tune from what I hear, their program is MS dos based and not as user friendly.They also do not have as many outputs as either the HondaLINK or LINK2. Hondata is cool, but you will need to buy a harness, an old school 92-95 ecu ,their program software,
and a chip burner to change the program everytime you need a new chip. That can cost upwards off $2000 and that is not real time tuning because you still have to burn a chip everytime you make a change and you are using a old ecu with once again less outputs than the LINK units. As for UNIchip, they are a piggyback, and I do not recommend that for turbocharged applications. After all , it is just feeding a false signal to you ecu to fool it into doing something else. The may be the cheapest of the group but
if you want to buy their tuning software, it also gets up there in price really fast.
Installation will be a snap for the Link units since they will just plug-in. As for lowering the price, if you can get a multiple order buy-in of 2-5 units(personally for you 155 off) everyone else 10% off and 6+ units(20% to you)and everyone else 15% back. If you want to buy one just for yourself, I can give you 10% off since I have spoken to you on several occassions.
Please call me at 650-255-6015 if you have further questions.
Originally posted by anubyss I've not done much research on Unichip and Haltech. I've read plenty on Hondata. The ONLY thing I don't like about Hondata is I just can't tune it myself. I am not willing to spend $1000+ for the 4b plus the chip burner, harness, and a new ecu. There is no tuner near me. The closest one is in VA.
There is a Unichip and Haltech tuner near me. Both will do what I need apparently but Unichip will do it for less. I haven't picked a definite one yet, as I haven't yet visited the tuner to see the Unichip in action. But from what I hear it will definitely meet my needs for less than Haltech. Haltech was $1200 then another $700 or so for tuning and install. Unichip will be about $500 less.
You don't need a 4b to do tuning, I have a 2b, a p28 ecu, wiring harness and prom burner and I can program to my hearts content. This setup is around $1,200 complete, a gsr ecu would be another ~$200 additional which most people would want. You might be able to get the programmer cheaper else where.
his isn't to spark a which is better conversation, thats been done to death, just info you can use a 2b and not a 4b.
Jeff
__________________
-Smilez
'02 MP5
'97 Base Prelude
'93 Touring RX-7
Originally posted by anubyss Hmm $1200 with the ability to tune sounds good. The prom burner, is that just a generic one or the one from Hondata? How much is it?
Its the one from hondata, you might be able to get one cheaper then their $270. You can probably get the same one cheaper somewhere else since that isn't their main business.
The p28 is about $100, but you will probably want a gsr ecu for $300-350 unless you are getting a J&S for detination protection.
__________________
-Smilez
'02 MP5
'97 Base Prelude
'93 Touring RX-7
That's all good information from the Link guy. It's a little biased against the other EMS's, but all the facts are straight and he definitely spent some time on the message. Nice to see such response from a manufacturer/distributor.
I'd still probably go with the Hondata 2b. From what it sounds like, you don't care about real time programming. Put your turbo on and use the Hondata base map until you can get someone with a 4b to tune it for you. I sat in with someone tuning a Hondata up here at it was a pretty easy process.
Good luck.
__________________ DirtyLude
Mark Higgins
Toronto Prelude Club www.hondaprelude.to
I talked with Andrew (tech for Link), and he seemed very knowledgeable. We chatted for about 30 minutes and he answered every question I had. Now if I got everything right, I could get the HondaLink or Link2 and it's completely tunable with a laptop. All I would need is the unit, serial cable, and the harness. All for around $1350. I can intall it myself and tune it myself.
I know that the guy is trying to sell his product but he was more than willing to help out. He was curious about my setup and actually recommended a lower model (cheaper) for me. So right now it's $1350 for Link2 or $1050 for HondaLink. I guess it's the same as the AEM unit except I think I can do the install and the tuning myself.
He said the Hondata unit seems pretty good to him but told me to stay away from Unichip. Right now I am leaning heavily to Link2. Anyway, thanks to Iranman for the suggestion and DirtyLude for your input.
Originally posted by DirtyLude It's been around for a while. Do a search on the honda-tech forced induction forum. $1000.00 for the unit. $277.00 for the handheld tuning module, and $70.00 for the PC link if you want to data log. It doesn't sound like a deal to me.
The PC link only datalogs and downloads maps programmed with the handset controller, you can't tune with it. 128 load points for ignition and fuel. Coolant temp correction only. No thanks.
I agree with the other posts in that Andrew's emails were very informative. Also, they were returned in less than 24 hours (sometimes less than 30 minutes!) during my conversations with the Link distributor.
I think they're just trying to jump on the popularity that Hondata has spawned, and they're fighting fire w/ fire (i.e. providing the best support they can -- at least, BEFORE your purchase their system, )
The unit I was looking at was the Link Plug-in module, or the HondaLink. whatever. Either way, it required the outer shell of an OBDII GSR ECU, with the 'motherboard,' so to speak, being replaced by one of Link's programmable circuit boards. The only comment of DirtyLude's that stands was that you'd have to use the hand-held controller to tune the system. I was told that the unit is supplied with base maps for a GSR, if that helps.
As as the other features go, the HondaLink DOES correct for both ECT & IAT, and contains 200 load points. This is what was emailed to me.
Once again, I hate to continue this thread, but some of this wasn't mentioned. Price was ~1000 for Hondalink & tuning module, with another 60 for datalogging, ~260 for harness, 75 for ECU shell (w/o main board), and 300 injectors. Lot o' $$$$.
I'm kind of curious why everyone automatically discounts the Unichip because it is a piggyback? Hondata while I am told is a great unit also has its limitations if you are pushing heavy boost...which would be why most people re-build the bottom end. I think a lot of people get caught up buying race parts that dont work too well for street applications. I am the person Anubyss referred to who is getting the uni-chip, I'll be sure to post some results. However the shop is putting uni-chip in most of the new turbo builds, as well as two of their Supras and their own drag car. It has the ability to run additional injectors, alter timing, and even water injection. I know alot of people dont like additional injector set up, but if done properly it is a great advantage for a daily driver. Car runs normal when not in boost, doesnt pollute any more than usual when not in boost, no lumpy idle, etc...I'm not saying there are not any other good alternatives, but the uni-chip shouldnt be overlooked. It is the most cost effective solution.
I wish they posted real information on their own ECU. I mean without some technical data we don't have any way to compare it to other ECUs.
I think no-one is recommending the unichip because we don't have any information on it. Personaly I view the Stock ECU as a great hinderance. I can run just as fuel efficient (unfortunately not as environmentaly freindly, though) with my setup and I don't get constant CELs because my high flow cat isn't liked much or my EGR valve has been rerouted.
From what your saying it sounds like the Uni-Chip is just a secondary injector controller and ignition controller. It sounds exactly the same as the Turbo Link.
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