is f-max all that much safer than drag? how much power does it really produce...on the site it said 288...i dont believe that. rumor has it drag produces more power...411???
Check this site.. do a few searches and see what you come up.
Drag in stock form makes about 220 or something according to Purelude's dyno's. F-max makes about 230 or something around that in stock form with the closed loop. I believe both kits come with a wrongly trimmed turbo for the 8psi max boost... I'm sure some of the turbo guys will jump in sooner or later.
anyway, I think F-max kit produces about 240 or 250 whp with closed loop. 288whp is open loop. To a search on Turbo from this forum, you'll get a good information from a guy who installed Drag Turbo kit on his Lude. He's getting about 250whp, if I remember correctly.
Originally posted by Drew408 is f-max all that much safer than drag? how much power does it really produce...on the site it said 288...i dont believe that. rumor has it drag produces more power...411???
cars are so volatile these days. heh. but its do able, with enough time and effort. I've only seen 1 or 2 third party fmax results, and they showed 230-240 hp w/ closed loop. I've never seen anyone do openloop w/ fmax because you need to have it modified.
The fmax kit is easier to install. The Drag requires cutting the webbing on the block sometimes. The Fmax bolts right on, no mods needed. It also has better fuel management. I just ordered the Fmax kit, we just had a big group buy and got the whole kit for 3300 shipped. There is a great group buy for drag turbos right now. Look on groupbuycenter.com. The items that come with the drag kit are little lower quality, I think. Fmax comes with a Tial wastergate, which is better than the Deltagate. The BOV are the same. The Fmax turbo manifold has a one year warrenty, I don't believe that the Drag includes a warrenty. The Fmax includes two extra injectors, and a fuel management program that is garrentied to be at proper 12.1 air fuel ratio. It also includes a detination control device. You can chose between a MSD BTM, or a thicker head gasket. The Drag kit doesn't include those last two things. Also people I have talked to said the Drag intercooler has no mounts. That isn't a big deal, but it shows the quality of the kit.http://www.turboprelude.net/Fmaxpics.html That is a good place to see pics of the kit installed. Also check out http://www.f-max.com. Drag doesn't have a site.
Good luck.
Josh
Originally posted by LudeTec The fmax kit is easier to install. The Drag requires cutting the webbing on the block sometimes.
I didn' thave to cut my webbing. The only thing i cut was the bumper to fit the ic pipes a little better. you might have to do this as well.
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The Fmax bolts right on, no mods needed.
The manifold and the wastegate or the turbo hit something to cause a nice leak. read about it on dirtylude's page.
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It also has better fuel management.
This is a very moot point.
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The Fmax turbo manifold has a one year warrenty, I don't believe that the Drag includes a warrenty.
the prelude manifold is "special order" and does not come with a warranty. the drag generation 3 kits come witha 1 year warranty. When drag releases their new kit (if ever) it will have a 1 year warranty as well.
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The Fmax includes two extra injectors, and a fuel management program that is garrentied to be at proper 12.1 air fuel ratio.
Guaranteed? wow. I've heard of some cases (actually a lot) where the mf2 comes untuned. Meaning, you have to mess with it yourself. It's not hard to do i bet, but it sure won't get you a guaranteed 12.1 a/f ratio.
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It also includes a detination control device. You can chose between a MSD BTM, or a thicker head gasket. The Drag kit doesn't include those last two things.
You can get any of those for 100-200. Add that price onto a drag kit and we're still under the price of an fmax kit or upto the same price.
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Also people I have talked to said the Drag intercooler has no mounts.
Those ppl got scrweed then, cause my drag intercooler has a mount in the middle to bolt up to the car.
purelude, are you trying to say that the drag kit isn't as bad as people make it out to be? would you suggest the fmax or the drag for someone that doesn't want to worry too much about cutting and all that stuff, just install it and not worry too much about it?
if you want to "just install it and not worry too much," get a radio instead. i don't think any FI really fits in that category.
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Originally posted by ckchi purelude, are you trying to say that the drag kit isn't as bad as people make it out to be? would you suggest the fmax or the drag for someone that doesn't want to worry too much about cutting and all that stuff, just install it and not worry too much about it?
__________________
"AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals." R.I.P. Jerry Falwell.
Originally posted by ckchi purelude, are you trying to say that the drag kit isn't as bad as people make it out to be? would you suggest the fmax or the drag for someone that doesn't want to worry too much about cutting and all that stuff, just install it and not worry too much about it?
theres not much cutting involved. Here's a list of what you have to cut
1. A bigger hole for the intercooler pipes. (AEM CAI ppl do this all the time)
2. Cut the cylindrical tube behind the front bumper support frame (gets in the way. you'll never miss it.)
3. cut a little of your front bumper. (no one will ever miss it)
he was comparing the regulator system to the mf2 and saying its a better way to handle fuel w/ boost. We can in fact go over it, back and fourth with no end
Originally posted by chomorro What do you mean by wrong size turbine? Too big for such low boost? To much lag? To small?
You want to get a Turbo thats properly sized for your specific needs. I forgot the calculations for how to get a proper Compressor/Turbine/Intercooler size and all that other stuff. If you go with a AR that is to big the Turbine takes to long to spool or it does not reach its peak performance (can't remember which).
I learned a lot of stuff from Corky Bells book "Maximum Boost" he goes over everything in that book. I'd highly recommend it to any of you people who are new to the world of Turbocharging.
My personal opinion about one thing, Fuel management is the most important thing. I'm not a big fan of boost dependent regulators, additional fuel injectors, or rising rate fuel pumps. I think to build a proper turbo kit you should go with a standalone system.
while i was at a show the other day, i saw a row of cars (all in a club) and they all had drag turbos (on si's b16's and such) and i mentioned that i heard fmax was the better way to go, and one guy was like "your joking right?, and showed me some dynos of their cars, all runnning solid he said and no probs." and one guy was putting 321 to the ground in a b16a1. So i might grab a drag when the time comes, shrug. both look like they both have their strong and weak points.
This isn't a 'Should I get a Drag or F-Max kit for my Civic/Integra' discussion. The Drag kits for the Civics and Integra are proven, and nice performers. Infortunately the Drag Kit for the Prelude isn't up to that spec.
__________________ DirtyLude
Mark Higgins
Toronto Prelude Club www.hondaprelude.to
Originally posted by DirtyLude This isn't a 'Should I get a Drag or F-Max kit for my Civic/Integra' discussion. The Drag kits for the Civics and Integra are proven, and nice performers. Infortunately the Drag Kit for the Prelude isn't up to that spec.
so the drag kit's not as good as the fmax, but it's also cheaper, right? which one is better for the money?
At this point I wouldn't recommend any kit. Nobody seems to be getting any real results from the base kits without alot of modification. The MF2 really pushes the F-Max kit over the price of the Drag, but you can get the F-Max without the fuel controller if you want. I don't think I'd suggest a turbo without a standalone anymore.
__________________ DirtyLude
Mark Higgins
Toronto Prelude Club www.hondaprelude.to
argg....when will they come up with a good kit for our preludes.....too much arguments between drag and f-max. Don't know what to get. Hope greddy comes up with a good kit.... or maybe drag can build a genIII for preludes tooooo.....just hoping at this moment.... custom turbo is too much for at this moment, and I don't know that much about custom turbos...so i don't want to waste money on something that I'm not really familiar with...
how much is a hondata? i plan on gettin that when i get build my bottom end, any suggestion for what rods and pistons to use? i think i finally blew the head gasket that comes with the fmax kit, so since the head is comin off, might as well take the whole thing out and build the bottom end, damn, expensive ass hobby!
I've had the drag kit and the fmax kit before and have come to the conclusion that the fmax quality is a lot better than the drag. But for people who daily drive their car, the drag fuel system is sufficient instead of the mf-2 system. I got the fmax kit without the injectors on the piping and just used a pump and regulator fuel system and works great. I also have the missing link to fool my map sensor and I'm boosting 9 lbs daily driven. I'll post up some pictures when I can. Anyone out there selling a P13 ECU?
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