Okay, I'm new to this forum, so just wanted to say "whats up" to all the Prleude owners. OKay, getting back down to business. I have a 95 VTEC, and I'm loving it. Just got it, so its stock. Still fast as hell. Anyway, basically, I am planning on going turbo very soon. And hardcore turbo too. I will be building up the bottom end and I was planning on buying the F-Max kit and going Hondata 4b or ZDyne. Now, I'm hoping to run about 15-18 psi after everything is done, maybe even more. What I was wondering is, is the F-Max that good? Will it give me the power I desire (around 400 whp hoping)? Or should I get a custom turbo kit made? If so, whats a good company and what are good specs for the turbo? It will be a T03/T04 anyway, right? I know the basics of turbos, but not Einstein material. So, i need some turbo pros to answer this stuff for me. What kind of exhaust should I run? Also, I heard that you cant have forged pistons in the H22, true? Are there other kind of pistons that I can use, or should I just resleeve the block? If so, what are good sleeves, and how much? Lastly, should I also get a blockguard too? If so, what brand?
Sorry for all the questions, but I need to know EXACTLY what I need for this setup and only the best. Money is not an issue.
Basically, I need to know everything about what I have to put in.
I think that Sport compact magazine had some sort of write up on turbo sizing and stuff. After installing my drag kit and a little of an Fmax, for the amount of money you'll spend on ecus and exhausts, a custom turbo kit would be cheaper and you'd be happier not going back and modding a production kit to end up with a custom. As far as piping, any muffler shop could help you out, preferrably one with a mandrel bender as you may have heard many times before.
If you are serious about going up past 12psi, you'll definitely need a sleeved/built block and stronger head components. For all this proposed work, the shop you may be going to should know everything about turboing Hondas, the do's and better do's. There are quite a few fully built Preludes, they'll help you with anything. In the end, most of the turbo ludes will end up with a custom kit, since the drag and probably fmax come with a 2.25" downpipe (just one of the many complaints). If I am not mistaken, 2.25 is reccommended for up to 250chp. Well, I didn't answer most of your questions, but if I could turbo my prelude from the beginning, it would be a fully custom job, as most of us would agree would be best.......
Yea, I know that I'm gonna have to beef up my internals especially with the boost I'm gonna put out. But, like I said, I heard that somebody makes some other kind of pistons for our engine that will work without the sleeves. Did anyone hear about that?
I've been looking over some stuff, basically hardcore research, and this is what I came up with:
Turbonetics T04E ceramic ball bearing turbo (expensive!!!)
RevHard hand built ceramic coated manifold with equal length runners (also expensive!!!)
HKS 60mm Wastegate or Greddy Type R wastegate
Greddy Type S BOV
I'm not too sure about the intercooler though. If anyone has the exact dimensions that I need for my 95 VTEC, it will be very appreciated. I will get one from Spearco. If not, then I will get the one from F-Max with all of the piping.
Any ideas on this setup and any ideas on what else to get?
Read the 'Custom Turbo for H22a?' thread. HKS and Greddy Wastegates just aren't worth the extra $$$'s and 60mm is insane overkill. Are you willing to get rid of your AC? The RevHard equal length says it requires the removal of AC.
My turbo is ball bearing. I don't think I would get a ball bearing turbo now. The ball bearing option is alot of money and I don't believe the benefits outway the cost.
__________________ DirtyLude
Mark Higgins
Toronto Prelude Club www.hondaprelude.to
Well what do you recommend for the wastegate? I will be running atleas 15 psi. Yeah, I'll get rid of my AC. I headr that the T04e are really good but I'm not sure what the specs that I should get are. Any help would cool.
Just tot I will share this.. Talked to Tial yesterday, and we can now use the 35mm flange with the 40mm top. I am sorry, but i don't really know the exact term for it. Basically, we can upgrade our 35mm wastegate to accomodate the 40mm top, so we can use both inner and outer springs with it. That way, we can run higher boost pressure from the wastegate itself while retaining the 35mm wastegate flange.
PureLude did lots of research on turbo sizing. I read all the material, but the math bores me quickly. I'd ask him for info. he RevHard race has a T04 flange so you'll need a straight T04 turbo. As for A/R, compressor, and turbine trim, I don't know.
I would get one of the Tials. If you want to go wacky, get the 46mm, but the 40mm should be able to handle anything you're able to put down. http://www.roadraceengineering.com/tial.htm I'll be running 15psi+ on the 35mm. These things are very high quality. If you haven't seen one before, you'll be impressed when you do.
__________________ DirtyLude
Mark Higgins
Toronto Prelude Club www.hondaprelude.to
Originally posted by 98lude Just tot I will share this.. Talked to Tial yesterday, and we can now use the 35mm flange with the 40mm top. I am sorry, but i don't really know the exact term for it. Basically, we can upgrade our 35mm wastegate to accomodate the 40mm top, so we can use both inner and outer springs with it. That way, we can run higher boost pressure from the wastegate itself while retaining the 35mm wastegate flange.
You mean we can use diaghram/actuator from the 40mm wastegate on the 35mm wastegate? That's what I'm assuming. You can get up to .8bar on the 35mm, which is about 12psi. If you're running this high of boost you should be using a boost controller. With a boost controller the spring doesn't really matter except that you can't boost lower than the spring pressure. This means the 35mm with the 12psi spring should be adequate for anybody here. You can raise the boost pressure to whatever you like using the controller.
__________________ DirtyLude
Mark Higgins
Toronto Prelude Club www.hondaprelude.to
Ok, cool but doesnt the controller (say Blitz SBC i-D which is what I want to get) use the spring to control boost? On the 40mm Tial, how much boost can it handle with the boost controller? Also, Hondata 4b says that it controls boost right? But it controls timing and fuel in boost, am I correct? It cant control what boost I want the turbo at right?
Right, the Hondata is not a boost controller. It can not regulate how much boost you are getting.
The boost controller simplified bleeds off boost that the wastegate sees in order to raise boost. Therefor with a 12psi spring and your controller set to 15psi, the controller will not let the wastagate see boost until 15psi. It effectively fools the wastegate into thinking that the boost is lower than actual. It also has the benefit if keeping the actuator fully closed until you reach your specified boost setting, which lets boost spool up quicker.
You can boost higher than the wastegate spring with a controller, but there is no way to boost lower. Get a spring that will be the lowest you wish to boost, then raise it with the controller. When you order the Wastegate you will have your choice of springs, so you'll have to decide before you order.
__________________ DirtyLude
Mark Higgins
Toronto Prelude Club www.hondaprelude.to
You mean we can use diaghram/actuator from the 40mm wastegate on the 35mm wastegate? That's what I'm assuming. You can get up to .8bar on the 35mm, which is about 12psi. If you're running this high of boost you should be using a boost controller. With a boost controller the spring doesn't really matter except that you can't boost lower than the spring pressure. This means the 35mm with the 12psi spring should be adequate for anybody here. You can raise the boost pressure to whatever you like using the controller.
you are right, except that there is a limit to how much boost you can increase on the spring. say you have a .4bar spring, and you use the controller to make it run 1.4bar. there is no way mechanically that the spring will hold that much pressure. after a certain amount, your wastegate will start leaking boost due to the force of the pressure in the turbo. However, like you said, with a 12psi spring, you can prob. still run 18psi or even 20. =)
Originally posted by DirtyLude PureLude did lots of research on turbo sizing. I read all the material, but the math bores me quickly. I'd ask him for info. he RevHard race has a T04 flange so you'll need a straight T04 turbo. As for A/R, compressor, and turbine trim, I don't know.
I would get one of the Tials. If you want to go wacky, get the 46mm, but the 40mm should be able to handle anything you're able to put down. http://www.roadraceengineering.com/tial.htm I'll be running 15psi+ on the 35mm. These things are very high quality. If you haven't seen one before, you'll be impressed when you do.
actually, you don't really have to calculate much. I posted on honda-tech sometime ago about some javascript that will actually do all the math for you.
actually, you don't really have to calculate much. I posted on honda-tech sometime ago about some javascript that will actually do all the math for you.
have you sched. a date to go back to get some good power going?
=) i am still trying to find out 1) why the exhaust leak, 2) why the fpr is not rising.
so meanwhile, I sent in my tial ( lawrence said it was leaking), and got some more firerings gasket and gasket between the turbine and exhaust manifold. at the same time, I am trying to get the top nut off the exhaust manifold. It got rounded and I couldn't get it out. So i am trying to dremel it off. Not very successful. not to mention I need to smog my car before end of the month... =((((
so much to do, and so little time. Once I got that exhaust leak and fpr figured out, I will def. pay lawrence a visit. btw, I checked the both the inline fuel pump and intank one. both seems to be working. can't think of why the fp is not rising.. =(
Originally posted by 98lude
you are right, except that there is a limit to how much boost you can increase on the spring. say you have a .4bar spring, and you use the controller to make it run 1.4bar. there is no way mechanically that the spring will hold that much pressure. after a certain amount, your wastegate will start leaking boost due to the force of the pressure in the turbo. However, like you said, with a 12psi spring, you can prob. still run 18psi or even 20. =)
That's not true. With a boost controller actual boost means nothing to the wastegate. You can run 50psi on a 7psi spring, if the boost solenoid never opens, the wastegate never sees any boost and will not open.
There are two ways to hook up the boost solenoid. One way bleeds off boost, the other way, when the top port is used, equalizes pressure between the top and bottom of the diaghram in the actuator. You can run 50psi which is pushing the spring up and valve up, but until the boost control solenoid takes boost away from the top of the diaghram, there's 50psi also pushing down on the diaghram and the valve is going nowhere.
The only limiting factor to boost is your controller. They are rated for the amount of boost they can raise, but it's usually at least two bar which should be fine.
__________________ DirtyLude
Mark Higgins
Toronto Prelude Club www.hondaprelude.to
=) i am still trying to find out 1) why the exhaust leak, 2) why the fpr is not rising.
so meanwhile, I sent in my tial ( lawrence said it was leaking), and got some more firerings gasket and gasket between the turbine and exhaust manifold. at the same time, I am trying to get the top nut off the exhaust manifold. It got rounded and I couldn't get it out. So i am trying to dremel it off. Not very successful. not to mention I need to smog my car before end of the month... =((((
so much to do, and so little time. Once I got that exhaust leak and fpr figured out, I will def. pay lawrence a visit. btw, I checked the both the inline fuel pump and intank one. both seems to be working. can't think of why the fp is not rising.. =(
I have no idea if this is your problem, but I had an exhaust leak for two reasons.
1. the turbo was hitting the motor mount very slightly. Had to shave some of the bolt that allows you to turn the housing on the turbo. This resolved it no problem.
2. The flange on the manifold I got from fmax was not level. If put put a level on it, it would teter. Just slightly, but that was my main problem. I took it to a machine shop and have it leveled.
__________________
-Smilez
'02 MP5
'97 Base Prelude
'93 Touring RX-7
Man, thanks for the answers guys. You guys are the best. Any way, now I'm getting the hang of all this stuff. How do you work that TurboMap thing? I dont understand how to use it. I understand that it asks me all of the points, but how does it tell me what kind of turbo I need?
Also, if any of you guys have any suggestions about what kind of exhaust I should get for the turbo, please feel free to share your opinion.
Ok, one more question: If I go with the RevHard equal length manifold, and a tial wastegate, where can I get a downpipe that I can use for a closed-loop wastegate setup? Where can I get one made?
You'll have to find a local exhaust shop that will build one for you on the car. I have a relationship with a custom exhaust manufacturer here that does my custom work, but it would be impossible to make one for you without having the car to test fit as it was being made. You're going to have to ask around in your area.
__________________ DirtyLude
Mark Higgins
Toronto Prelude Club www.hondaprelude.to
Many local exhaust shops have access to mandrel bent piping. The place that I deal with www.brullenexhaust.com deals with mandrel bent stainless steel piping only.
__________________ DirtyLude
Mark Higgins
Toronto Prelude Club www.hondaprelude.to
