BlueShadow

Hey everybody!

So I've finally decided to go with an FMAX. I'm not a big fan of RR FPR's (DRAG) cause they only use BOOST PRESSURE to determine fuel flow. I also wasn't a fan of FMAX until I visited their site and read their fuel delivery method, It says that they use BOOST PRESSURE AND RPM! as a reference for fuel flow. (thats good in my book)

The only thing I'm worried about then is the proper placement of the 2 extra injectors.

so my questions are:

-where does FMAX say to place the injectors? in the intake? or right before the TB?

-Regardless of what FMAX says what is really the best place for the injectors?

I plan on copying Smilez and DirtyLude, by ditching the ERL MF2 and getting a Haltech or a Hondata 4B? for higher boost levels. at te same time I'll be getting an extra block sleeved, pistons etc.


But for the first 4-6 months I'm gonna use the MF2 and boost no higher than 5-6 PSI on stock internals.

so what do you guys think so far?

 

BlueShadow

And also,

courtesy of DirtyLudes site
DirtyLudes site

the FMAX parts and recommended "stuff"

question: will FMAX allow me to select my own compressor/turbine trim?

FMAX PARTS
-T3/T4 hybrid turbocharger (gonna get a .63 turbine and need to do the math to figure out what comp size)
-turbo manifold
-TIAL 35mm wastegate (with optional .4bar spring instead of standard .6bar)
-intercooler (mounting brackets already welded on)
-intercooler piping / with couplers
-downpipe
-steel braided oil send line
-oil return hose
-ERL MF2 fuel controller
-MAP sensor
-2 440cc additional fuel injectors
-K&N air filter with filter flex pipe
-check valve kit for OEM MAP sensor
-various fuel line, clamps, vacuum hose
-MSD BTM


additional "stuff to get"
-One step colder copper spark plugs (NGK ZFR7F-11)
-6mm and 4mm silicon vacuum hose (I got this from www.bakerprecision.com)
-Boost gauge
-EGT gauge
-Endyn Bosch Fuel Pump
-J&S Safeguard with dual monitor
-ACT Extreme Pressure Plate with Street Disk
-Moroso Oil Catch Can
-Various other gauges
--turbo exhaust system



I was also wondering for anyone running the FMAX in open loop, do you guys just let it vent into your hood? or is it possible to run an exhaust pipe from the WG to say the side of the wheelwell?

cause I was thinking about getting a flex pipe and running it out from under the hood.

BlueShadow

Another question I have for you FMAX Luders,

what were your 1/4 mile times and at what PSI was that? what ET's would I expect from 6 PSI?

I also had a question about the MSD-BTM (I don't like the FMAX Ideal Gasket).

To prevent detonation the MSD retards timing right? is it true that excessive timing retard will cause the exhaust valves to overly hot or maybe even melt?

would it make sense for me to upgrade my exhaust valves whenever I get around to building my block?

DirtyLude

Yikes. That's alot of questions.

Injector placement. The F-Max pipe has the injector bungs already welded on to it. If your planning on leaving the injectors before the throttle plate, it's a good idea to leave them where they are.

The only other place to put them is to put your own injector bosses in the plenum. With two injectors, it's a little difficult. You would have to put them at the top of the plenum pointing towards the runners. You would have to find the best place to put them to desperse the fuel properly. The ERL will run 4 16.5 ohm high resistance injectors. If you can find 4 cheap high resistance (saturated) injectors, you could place them in the individual runners. This would be the optimum setup.

The coolest injector bosses I've found are the ones from Electromotive. They're threaded, so no welding is required. You can just drill the runners, tap them, and screw in the new injectors.
http://www.electromotive-inc.com/accessories.htm#boss

I'm pretty sure they'll let you choose your own turbo specs. The one I have has .63 A/R housing. You'll probably want to boost higher than 5-6psi or you'll be under the efficiency range for the turbo, like Purelude and I were. Running the standard F-Max kit, I had not troubles at 7.5psi. I should have turned it up.

The ERL MF2 is programmable for Boost and RPM, you can get an idea for the controls here:
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/cp/mf2/techmf2/mf2tec.html
It's best to run the control box into your cabin and use a little screwdriver to adjust what you need as you drive. You can see where I mounted it here:
http://www.hondaprelude.to/gallery/i...e=DSC00015.JPG (BIG PIC)

Excessively retarded timing causes high EGT's. If you have an EGT gauge, you'll be able to figure out that your valves are going to melt before it happens. It would make sense to go to Stainless steel valves when you get your head redone. My head is remaining stock right now.

__________________
DirtyLude
Mark Higgins

Toronto Prelude Club
www.hondaprelude.to

BlueShadow

Wassup DirtyLude!

Thanks for the reply! I remember reading on your site that you were thinking about getting a custom fuel rail or something like that. I was thinking about doing the same thing. but I figured If I'm gonna upgrade to a Haltech/Hondata after 6-12 months of boosting why bother? I'm hoping the stock FMAX fuel mgmt will work.

I was trying to guess at how the FMAX system works too. The stock fuel system wont be touched right? all we are doing is adding two additional injectors which is controlled by a separate controller. and from the looks of the diagram the fuel is controlled manually (8 potentiometers). Does the controller also hook up to the Tach circuit? and whats the name of the thing it gets the boost signal from? Is it the MAP sensor?

And this might seem like a newbie question. but in the diagram when they refer to a "link", is that similar to like a jumper in your personal computer?

for example:
"Remove all links when the MF2 is used for boost mapping purpose"

Thats like saying "remove all the jumpers when used for boost mapping." I'm only asking cause I'm looking real close at the MF2 diagram and I see a bunch of jumper-looking things.

Thanks in advance

BlueShadow

your talking about the turbine (hot) side here right? I was planning on getting a .63 A/R as well, since thats what everyone else has.


I think I might turn it up to 7.5 PSI I checked the compressor calculator on http://www.turbofast.com.au/turbomap.html and I also did the math for 7.5 PSI the compressor WILL be working more efficiently. My only concerns then are will my internals survive for at least 6 months? I'm sure they will as long as there is no detonation.

DirtyLude

You wont need to touch the jumpers on the MF2, only the pots. They set it up already for your car.

Yes, the MF2 taps into the ignition wire so it can figure out RPM. There's a little red light under each of the RPM pots that run across the top of the diagram. Each red LED corrosponds with a RPM level and the light up as you rev the engine.

It reads boost by using a GM 2 bar MAP sensor that you will need to plumb into a vacuum line.

The only thing that's touched on the stock fuel system is you need to tap the fuel line for the new injectors somewhere between the fuel filter and the rail.

Everything comes with the kit. The only thing that was missing on mine was Tee to tap into the fuel line. The wiring is fairly straight forward, the only thing that's a littel confusing is the wires that have the same colours. The wires with the same colours are interchangeable. It doesn't matter which one goes where in the wiring diagram.

I'm not using my old B&M banjo bolt with a 1/8" NPT tap on the top. I might be able send it to you. It makes tapping into the fuel line a bolt on deal.

__________________
DirtyLude
Mark Higgins

Toronto Prelude Club
www.hondaprelude.to

Smilez

Hey BlueShadow, I have an MF2 and 2 440cc injectors with the injector harness from my fmax kit I'd sell for $150 shipped if your interested.

You *could* get them to skip the BTM and get a J&S ultra v2 instead of the original one. It has the ability to do retarded timing and has an electronic check map so you don't have to get a missing link or the lame series of check valves. Personally I think it's worth it if you are going to get a J&S at all because it will probably cost less, the J&S retard is better then the btm because you can set when for the timing to come in, say 2-3lbs instead of .1+ lbs. Plus it's one less add-on box. And you can probably find someone to trade for the J&S classic when you get hondata and get $100-$200 from them.

__________________
-Smilez
'02 MP5
'97 Base Prelude
'93 Touring RX-7

Smilez

BTW, you should be able to get the wastegate pumping welded shut on the downpipe. Then get a new flange for the wastegate, have a pipe welded on it to vent below the car. You won't be able to get it mandrel bent because of fitment, but it shouldn't matter really for performance.

__________________
-Smilez
'02 MP5
'97 Base Prelude
'93 Touring RX-7

BlueShadow

thanks for the inputs guys, but whats this about unloading your used stuff on me?

seriously though, I appreciate all your offers but I wont be able to even see my car for another 10 months. but between now and then I'm gonna be researching FMAX like a mofo.