Well I have become very board with the current Greddy Turbo kit that is on the car and want to see what I can push this car to.
Currently I have a bare block and head waiting to be worked on.
First things first, the block.
I choose to use a used block as it has heat cycled enough that expansion is not going to be an issue when re-sleeving the block.
What kind of work am I going to need to do to make the block handle this kind of power?
Sleeved, but which sleeves are best suited for this kind of power?
Anything other than re-sleeving that I should be doing to get the most from this block?
Current plan for the bottom end is:
Golden Eagle Mfg to sleeve the block
CP 9:1 compression pistons
Golden Eagle Rob, Main, and Thrust bearings
Crower Rods
Balanced/edged crank (not sure who can do this well)
ARP hardware
....the rest, well if you dont know what you need to do to make that kind of power then perhaps you shouldnt be building it. This kind of build requires lots of attention and lots of money to be done correctly, if you are at odds where to start than perhaps jsut dont start until you have researched it and have an idea of what you need to do and the parts required to do it.
....the rest, well if you dont know what you need to do to make that kind of power then perhaps you shouldnt be building it. This kind of build requires lots of attention and lots of money to be done correctly, if you are at odds where to start than perhaps jsut dont start until you have researched it and have an idea of what you need to do and the parts required to do it.
You are aware that asking questions is part of the build process right?
But I expected these kinds of responses to a question like this but being that I am not a Honda guy (always built RX7's) I wanted input from people who have done this and there experiences and suggestions.
Yes a build like this requires lots of money, time and attention to detail....of of which I have so I do not see an issue with asking how to prep a H22 block for the kind of power I want to make. I know there are H22's out there running 500whp street driven with just a sleeved block and nothing else done to the block.
My question was if there is anything else I can do to the block (only the block) to make it take these kind of power levels.
Resleeve the block, using an open deck block, then put a block gaurd in. Possibly hve teh block shotpeened, it will reduce stress points. Take a 55mm crank and have it honed, knife edged(or maybe buy an aftermarket crank from say Jun, Crowe, Brian Crower ectc) then balanced. The find a set of good rods(pauter, crower, eagle etc) Get some good pistons that are in the range of compression you will need to make teh power you want, coat the side skirts and pistons tops(variosu comapnies can do this for you). Then Remove the balance shafts,(kaizen speed makes a kit), possibly obtain a new but worked over oil pump (endynn), replace water pump, possibly find a harmonic crank balancer to replace the oem crank pulley.
Then from there look into havign all the ehad compnaents switched out to a setup that will operate in conjection with the block specifications. Replace the valves(make sure to get valve job done so they seal with the head nicely), repalce the valve guides, the valve seals, the valvesrpings, the reatainers, change out the cam (unless you want to use the oem cam, which is fairly good for boost, but IMO its better to get cam designed for boost). Then once that is all done you need to assemble it with some good head studs so that the boost pressure doesnt lift the head. Use a good head gasket(oem, cometic), mount up the intake manifold of your choice making sure that you have injectors that will keep pace witht he rest of your setup, and then move on to the peripherals, like PS, ALT. Once you have all that done install the flywheel of your choice as well as a clutch that has enough grabbign power to be useful. Once that is done install the trans onto the engine and then install it into the car. Once you have it in the car you need to plan out how you are goin to have your cooling setup and then also measure to fit an intercooler and piping. After that, you need to fab up an exhasut manifold(or buy one from somewhere) and then install the turbo of choice and get it all piped in. The once you have all that done you need to go into the back of your car pull out your fuel pump and put one in that will feed the injectors the amount you require to run the engine. Then once all that is said and done you will need to have some sort of tunign device for it. Hondata, chrome, neptune, AEM, and the like. Once yuo have all that and it is built and installed and timed and all good then you need to tune it to run, once that is done presto build finished.
Now, you can boost an h22 on all stock if you liek but that doesnt make it run, jsut cuz someone told you they boosted on stock internals doesnt make their engine run reliably or powerfully.
Resleeve the block, using an open deck block, then put a block gaurd in. Possibly hve teh block shotpeened, it will reduce stress points. Take a 55mm crank and have it honed, knife edged(or maybe buy an aftermarket crank from say Jun, Crowe, Brian Crower ectc) then balanced. The find a set of good rods(pauter, crower, eagle etc) Get some good pistons that are in the range of compression you will need to make teh power you want, coat the side skirts and pistons tops(variosu comapnies can do this for you). Then Remove the balance shafts,(kaizen speed makes a kit), possibly obtain a new but worked over oil pump (endynn), replace water pump, possibly find a harmonic crank balancer to replace the oem crank pulley.
Then from there look into havign all the ehad compnaents switched out to a setup that will operate in conjection with the block specifications. Replace the valves(make sure to get valve job done so they seal with the head nicely), repalce the valve guides, the valve seals, the valvesrpings, the reatainers, change out the cam (unless you want to use the oem cam, which is fairly good for boost, but IMO its better to get cam designed for boost). Then once that is all done you need to assemble it with some good head studs so that the boost pressure doesnt lift the head. Use a good head gasket(oem, cometic), mount up the intake manifold of your choice making sure that you have injectors that will keep pace witht he rest of your setup, and then move on to the peripherals, like PS, ALT. Once you have all that done install the flywheel of your choice as well as a clutch that has enough grabbign power to be useful. Once that is done install the trans onto the engine and then install it into the car. Once you have it in the car you need to plan out how you are goin to have your cooling setup and then also measure to fit an intercooler and piping. After that, you need to fab up an exhasut manifold(or buy one from somewhere) and then install the turbo of choice and get it all piped in. The once you have all that done you need to go into the back of your car pull out your fuel pump and put one in that will feed the injectors the amount you require to run the engine. Then once all that is said and done you will need to have some sort of tunign device for it. Hondata, chrome, neptune, AEM, and the like. Once yuo have all that and it is built and installed and timed and all good then you need to tune it to run, once that is done presto build finished.
Now, you can boost an h22 on all stock if you liek but that doesnt make it run, jsut cuz someone told you they boosted on stock internals doesnt make their engine run reliably or powerfully.
Never said they were boosting on a stock H22. I said all that they did to the block was a re-sleve, pistons, rods and bearings. Made 503whp and they have had the car and daily driven it for 3 years now with no issues.
This is the kind of information I am looking for tho.
This is a great base to work off of to get things going.
My concern is to build the strongest bottom end possible to support the boost I want to run.
I have dealt with a lot of rotary engines in my time and they are a different beast when it comes to boost so this is a learning experience for me.
My current setup is stock H22A4 with Greddy turbo kit, Greddy E-Manage, Greddy E01 to tune E-Manage and control boost level, 550cc RC injectors, 255 Walbro fuel pump.
I do not want to push the setup I have as I know the motor will not take it and this is why I am building up another motor on the side to put in there.
Over the Fall/Winter/Spring the car will go under the knife. Gut the entire car and build it up all fresh and new.
Come summer 2012 the car will be running a fully built motor hitting the 500whp range I'm shooting for.
And with the help of people like yourself I can do all of this.
RX7s are easy to build, only 3 moving parts. Im an rx7 guy too with the TT
Anyways your going to need more than just a built block to hit over 500whp
just to list acouple things:
stage 2 turbo cams wit good valve kit
cam gears to retart timing
balance eliminator kit to hit over 8k
hv oil pump
electric wp
good racing manifold that wont crack is my problem @ moment
3" piping
4bar map
c16 or meth to boost safe n cool(seen alot of melted pistons)
a good tuner
ect to much to list
__________________
JDM inc.
Junior97lude@gmail.com
806-252-27TwoFour 7 Day Return Policy
Resleeve the block, using an open deck block, then put a block gaurd in. Possibly hve teh block shotpeened, it will reduce stress points. Take a 55mm crank and have it honed, knife edged(or maybe buy an aftermarket crank from say Jun, Crowe, Brian Crower ectc) then balanced. The find a set of good rods(pauter, crower, eagle etc) Get some good pistons that are in the range of compression you will need to make teh power you want, coat the side skirts and pistons tops(variosu comapnies can do this for you). Then Remove the balance shafts,(kaizen speed makes a kit), possibly obtain a new but worked over oil pump (endynn), replace water pump, possibly find a harmonic crank balancer to replace the oem crank pulley.
Then from there look into havign all the ehad compnaents switched out to a setup that will operate in conjection with the block specifications. Replace the valves(make sure to get valve job done so they seal with the head nicely), repalce the valve guides, the valve seals, the valvesrpings, the reatainers, change out the cam (unless you want to use the oem cam, which is fairly good for boost, but IMO its better to get cam designed for boost). Then once that is all done you need to assemble it with some good head studs so that the boost pressure doesnt lift the head. Use a good head gasket(oem, cometic), mount up the intake manifold of your choice making sure that you have injectors that will keep pace witht he rest of your setup, and then move on to the peripherals, like PS, ALT. Once you have all that done install the flywheel of your choice as well as a clutch that has enough grabbign power to be useful. Once that is done install the trans onto the engine and then install it into the car. Once you have it in the car you need to plan out how you are goin to have your cooling setup and then also measure to fit an intercooler and piping. After that, you need to fab up an exhasut manifold(or buy one from somewhere) and then install the turbo of choice and get it all piped in. The once you have all that done you need to go into the back of your car pull out your fuel pump and put one in that will feed the injectors the amount you require to run the engine. Then once all that is said and done you will need to have some sort of tunign device for it. Hondata, chrome, neptune, AEM, and the like. Once yuo have all that and it is built and installed and timed and all good then you need to tune it to run, once that is done presto build finished.
Now, you can boost an h22 on all stock if you liek but that doesnt make it run, jsut cuz someone told you they boosted on stock internals doesnt make their engine run reliably or powerfully.
bouckarooo is on the spot n right.
id also get a fluiddamper underpulley not aem or UR they will twist the crank till it snaps(they work against the crank)
__________________
JDM inc.
Junior97lude@gmail.com
806-252-27TwoFour 7 Day Return Policy
RX7s are easy to build, only 3 moving parts. Im an rx7 guy too with the TT
Anyways your going to need more than just a built block to hit over 500whp
just to list acouple things:
stage 2 turbo cams wit good valve kit
cam gears to retart timing
balance eliminator kit to hit over 8k
hv oil pump
electric wp
good racing manifold that wont crack is my problem @ moment
3" piping
4bar map
c16 or meth to boost safe n cool(seen alot of melted pistons)
a good tuner
ect to much to list
Oh I understand that very well but right now my focus is on the block.
I want to focus on each area of the build as best as I can. Once the block is 110% I will move on to getting the head built up to handle the power.
Picking up another spare block and head this weekend....might build a NA setup on that one as well and swap it into my girls EG...not liking the B16 that's in there now.
Underdrive pullies are useless, if you replace any pulleys(aside form crank ulley as that should be oem, ati, or fluidampr) make sure the OD of teh pulley is teh same as stock and that the new pulely weighs less than the oem or its pointless.
If there were two things I wish I would've done before the final assembly and installation of my block, it would've been to coat the pistons, rods and valve faces and also to install the Balance Shaft Eliminator Kit. You can always go and upgrade everything that is on the outside of the engine easily when you're done, but to continually yank the engine and pull stuff apart is such a pain. Do it right the first time, and you'll never regret it.
If there were two things I wish I would've done before the final assembly and installation of my block, it would've been to coat the pistons, rods and valve faces and also to install the Balance Shaft Eliminator Kit. You can always go and upgrade everything that is on the outside of the engine easily when you're done, but to continually yank the engine and pull stuff apart is such a pain. Do it right the first time, and you'll never regret it.
Exactly why I want overbuild the bottom end as best as possible.
Start with the strongest foundation you can and build off of that.
Any other suggestions on things to consider or steps to not overlook. This is great information guys and a great starting point for this build.
Will be sending off the 2 blocks to be sleeved next week
Underdrive pullies are useless, if you replace any pulleys(aside form crank ulley as that should be oem, ati, or fluidampr) make sure the OD of teh pulley is teh same as stock and that the new pulely weighs less than the oem or its pointless.
i know u said "possibly find a harmonic crank balancer to replace the oem crank pulley"...that is the underdrive pulley duh
__________________
JDM inc.
Junior97lude@gmail.com
806-252-27TwoFour 7 Day Return Policy
i know u said "possibly find a harmonic crank balancer to replace the oem crank pulley"...that is the underdrive pulley duh
A crankharmonic balancer is not a underdrive pulley, underdrive pulleys are ones that are smaller in diameter than oem and therefore detract from their orignal designation(for example you put the aem pulleys on your alternatior eventually your alternator goes to hell beacuse it is not being spun at the correct speed). A crank harmonic balanceer(eg, ATI, Fluidampr) are OEM diameter and weigh as close to OEM spec as possible. This way they operate much like the OEM counterpart however eliminate/reduce errant vibration throughout the rotating assembly.....duh....
and i said possibly find one, because due to cost most people skip over this part, but those who are serious with their builds will have one everytime.
....duh..
Last edited by bouckarooo; 09-24-2011 at 06:17 PM.
A crankharmonic balancer is not a underdrive pulley, underdrive pulleys are ones that are smaller in diameter than oem and therefore detract from their orignal designation(for example you put the aem pulleys on your alternatior eventually your alternator goes to hell beacuse it is not being spun at the correct speed). A crank harmonic balanceer(eg, ATI, Fluidampr) are OEM diameter and weigh as close to OEM spec as possible. This way they operate much like the OEM counterpart however eliminate/reduce errant vibration throughout the rotating assembly.....duh....
and i said possibly find one, because due to cost most people skip over this part, but those who are serious with their builds will have one everytime.
....duh..
Unorthodox Ultra S - Lightened Crank Pulley
In most applications all of the underdriving is done with the crank pulley, not the accessory pulleys. This is done so maximum weight loss can be achieved at the crank where most of the horsepower gains are found. Most Ultra Series underdrive crank pulleys are available in natural polished aluminum as well as black, red, and blue anodizing.
you can call em whatever you want
__________________
JDM inc.
Junior97lude@gmail.com
806-252-27TwoFour 7 Day Return Policy
The unorthodox pulley is an underdrive pulley. It is pretty much useless for anything other than throwing your crank out of balance. The ATI and Fluidampr are not underdrive pulleys and they absorb vibrations from the crank.
i dont think jdmpreludeking know what a harmonic balancers purpose is, the unorthodox pulley is not even in the same league that whay teh ati and fluidampr are five time teh price of the unorthodox.
Perhps you call ati or fluidampr to have the engineers explain to you what they do and how important they are.
^ yes that is good as any built engien should. An under drive pulley gives engien power gain by underdruiviugn the accessories therefore the accessories scavenge less power.
save your money by not buying a toga hv oil pump(there seems to be a debate going on that its worthless equals stock pump
In both pumps, the drive gear has 8 teeth, the driven has 9. All measure 0.470" thick, in fact all dimensions are exactly the same, including the machining in the case around the gears. I put the gears on a postage scale, the Toga drive gear weighs 2 grams less, the driven weighs 1 gram less, I'm guessing they're the same base material. Both gear sets have a dark grey finish on the faces (nitride?), though most has worn off my original pump. The case internally is identical to the stock (though arguably cleaner ), no ports have been enlarged, no paths smoothed out, nothing.
In short, the Toga "high volume" oil pump is nothing special, it's a more expensive clone of the stock pump. Save your $275
__________________
JDM inc.
Junior97lude@gmail.com
806-252-27TwoFour 7 Day Return Policy
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