What causes tires to skip vs slide? - Honda Prelude Forum
Honda Prelude Forum Honda Prelude Forum Header Right
» Auto Insurance
» Featured Product
Wheel & Tire Center

» Log in
User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!
Go Back   Honda Prelude Forum > Racing > Autocross & Road Racing
Register Home Forum Active Topics Photo Gallery Mark Forums Read Auto Escrow Advertise

PreludeOnline.com is the premier Honda Prelude Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 05-14-2005, 02:47 AM   #1 (permalink)
Supporting Member
PreludeOnline Premium Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 3,035
iTrader: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
What causes tires to skip vs slide?

I'm trying to find out if it's my suspension or if it's just a tire trait. I'm quick to believe it's purely a tire trait as it happens with one set (Yoko ES100's) and doesn't with the others (P-Zero Asy and Azenis). I'm relatively highly sprung @ 550lb/in rear springs w/ a high anti-roll rate using the 2 setting on the Progress bar so take that into account. This may very well be a reason why most people love the ES100's, while I personally hate the way they feel and handle, this skipping is one of the reasons.

Yesterday I took a left turn moderately and it was a normally paved road (high in the middle angeled downward to the sides) and it's the first time that I've EVER felt a car that skipped this badly. It literally felt like the sidewall rolled over and died, and then decided to pop up and do it over again. Making the car's stability in the turn go to hell. There was no drama as I wasn't turning that hard, just experiencing the strange feeling this gave... Here's the evidence:


That scrape that you see isn't from parking or anything as I know the tires were clean before. It's from the tire bowing over, you can see both instances one is the really low scrape (ugh, more than halfway down the sidewall) and the other scrape which is seen under the white wear sections on the tread.

Now, what would cause this? It's not improper inflation, the tire pressure was @ 40 psi. Alignment shows -1.5 degrees of camber, standard caster and virtually 0 toe. Is it just a tire issue?

Last edited by TimeRacer; 05-14-2005 at 02:50 AM.
TimeRacer is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 05-14-2005, 08:57 AM   #2 (permalink)
Drew
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 880
iTrader: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
ES100's have notoriously soft sidewalls, its most likely the tire. The Bridgestone RE050's I recently tested had really soft sidewalls as well and would skip pretty bad at autox too. Of course, it was street driving for you, so thats a little different, but with that much springrate and a relatively soft tire, I'm not totally surprised it did that.
__________________
alvanderp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2005, 11:49 AM   #3 (permalink)
Supporting Member
PreludeOnline Premium Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 3,035
iTrader: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
If the sidewall bows over does that automaticly imply that the tire will skip? Or are there tires that the sidewall will bow over and stay thus sliding? I'm asking because I'm probably switching over to tires that have warranties for mileage for my daily tires in the future and just hope that the ES100's are in the minority in this trait. Since I'm looking @ the Falken Ziex 512's or Pirelli P-zero M+S (a guy I know will give me a warranty)... or the new B'stone G009 I just hope this unsettling isn't all too common as I've become sick of it w/ the ES100's.
TimeRacer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2005, 04:25 AM   #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 2,679
iTrader: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
From my experience I can tell you that the soft sidewalled F1 GSD3 does not skip at all, so there has to me more at play. I think it has more to do with tread design. The GSD3 has a continuous tread design which may play a factor. It slides out beautifully in a very controlable manner. I have rolled them over onto the sidewalls many times, but still, no skipping. I am also sprung pretty highly in the rear (Tein SS) and have a Neuspeed swaybar.

I've run P-Zero Asymmetricos a long time ago and I seem to remember them skipping quite a lot and that was back when my car was stock. I was also running 225s on the stock rims which were too narrow. The Yoko 520s are complete crap. They skipped like no other tire I know and I did have them after my car was modded. I also tried BFG G-Forces which were also pretty skip happy and rolled over a lot. I can't remember what their tread design was like, however. From my experience, I would say that tires with wide outside blocks skip, where those with continuous tread designs do not, but that's a pretty limited judgement.

Either way, rolling over in no way means that you will skip. BTW, I run my GSD3s at 35psi. When I ran them at 40+ PSI the handling was awful. They would not roll as much and they still didn't skip, but they slid around like crazy.
__________________

97 EGP Base 5spd Prelude. Engine: DC short ram, DC SS headers, AEM pulleys, Random High flow cat, Mugen sport exhaust, Apexi VAFC. Suspension: Tein SS, Tanabe front lower tie, Neuspeed front upper strut, Neuspeed rear sway, Tanabe rear upper strut, DC rear lower tie, 17X7.5 5Zigen Typhoons with 215/40/17 Goodyear F1 GS-D3s. Other: Bride Ergo II, Spoon oil cap, Magnecor wires, relocated Odyssey 680 battery, Denso iridiums, Mugen pedals, Mugen lugnuts, shortened shifter w/ Momo airleather, Rotora slotted rotors and Endless NA-Y pads, Goodridge SS lines.

Last edited by fmshaw1971; 05-15-2005 at 04:27 AM.
fmshaw1971 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2005, 09:35 AM   #5 (permalink)
Supporting Member
PreludeOnline Premium Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 774
iTrader: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
my azenis skip on a regular basis. i dont think it has to do with soft sidewall. Rather I think it has to do more with the surface of the road and the amount of squirm in the tread blocks as my azenis will skip more when at full tread then at low tread.
nikolai911 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2005, 06:39 PM   #6 (permalink)
Supporting Member
PreludeOnline Premium Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 3,035
iTrader: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Strangely enough these ES100's are basicly on the wear bars so I'd highly doubt that it's tread squirm along with the fact that there is plenty of proof that it's on the sidewall as well skipping around. It's strange, as I've NEVER had any issues with the Azenis skipping, ever. At full tread or not. Yoko A520's were great for autocross, and the Asymetricos never had these issues when I had them. I truly believe that it's the fact that my anti-roll ratio is just a lot higher than most thus not many people will have the same issues as I do.

fmshaw1971: Sliding is perfectly fine as I'd ALWAYS want the tires to slide instead of skipping. This is because your stability while the tire skips goes to hell. At least with slides you can control it, with skips you have no idea what the car will do. If it'll skip again, grip or slide. If upping the pressure even higher (though max PSI on ES100's is 42 psi) makes them slide I'd GLADLY take that.
TimeRacer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2005, 08:10 PM   #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 2,679
iTrader: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
I agree with you 100% Timeracer. Most people do prefer a tire that slides controllably. That's why I think the GSD3 is such a great tire at the limit. It won't win you any races against a track tire, but as far as street tires go, you can exploit them to the limit and still feel confidant. I do a lot of canyon racing and I was scared at the limit with my old G-Forces (not the current tread design, but the last one). It's one thing to skip and lose control in a parking lot auto-X, but it you lose it on a canyon run, you can kiss your ass goodbye. With the GSD3, you always have warning before they start to slide and you can adjust. I don't know why the GSD3 slides out so perfectly at the limit. It's definitely a sticky compound for street tires and the sidewalls are soft. The main difference I see with it is the tread design.

I do think the reason we may roll our tires more has a lot to do with our beefy sway bars. If you take out that play, it's gotta give somewhere, namely the tire sidewall. Then again, I roll my fronts pretty badly also and I have only the stock swaybar up front although I do have strut bars and lower tie bars at both ends. Either way, rolling is not the cause of skipping, at least in my case. I'd just try a different set of tires next time.
__________________

97 EGP Base 5spd Prelude. Engine: DC short ram, DC SS headers, AEM pulleys, Random High flow cat, Mugen sport exhaust, Apexi VAFC. Suspension: Tein SS, Tanabe front lower tie, Neuspeed front upper strut, Neuspeed rear sway, Tanabe rear upper strut, DC rear lower tie, 17X7.5 5Zigen Typhoons with 215/40/17 Goodyear F1 GS-D3s. Other: Bride Ergo II, Spoon oil cap, Magnecor wires, relocated Odyssey 680 battery, Denso iridiums, Mugen pedals, Mugen lugnuts, shortened shifter w/ Momo airleather, Rotora slotted rotors and Endless NA-Y pads, Goodridge SS lines.

Last edited by fmshaw1971; 05-15-2005 at 08:17 PM.
fmshaw1971 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2005, 08:55 PM   #8 (permalink)
Supporting Member
PreludeOnline Premium Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 3,035
iTrader: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by fmshaw1971
I agree with you 100% Timeracer. Most people do prefer a tire that slides controllably. That's why I think the GSD3 is such a great tire at the limit. It won't win you any races against a track tire, but as far as street tires go, you can exploit them to the limit and still feel confidant. I do a lot of canyon racing and I was scared at the limit with my old G-Forces (not the current tread design, but the last one). It's one thing to skip and lose control in a parking lot auto-X, but it you lose it on a canyon run, you can kiss your ass goodbye.
I don't mean to be a critic, but any kind of canyon "racing" on public roads where you need to worry about loosing it is a . Also, just in case you didn't know by adding a larger rear sway bar you're essentially REDUCING the amount of grip in the rear only encouraging the rear of the car to slide. Which is the main reason why you install one, to get the rear to slide around giving rotation. You don't add one to increase grip.

In regards to this post it's obvious that it's not tread squirm in my case with these uuber soft ES100 sidewalls. I just autocrossed today on the Azenis again and never once had an issue with skipping, so I'll have to attribute it to the tire. It's not my bushings giving out and binding.
TimeRacer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2005, 07:01 AM   #9 (permalink)
Supporting Member
PreludeOnline Premium Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 774
iTrader: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
I also should add that when my azenis skip I am at a very high slip angle and the surfaces that we autox on here are not very good. Thus they only skip when I make a mistake.
nikolai911 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2005, 12:08 PM   #10 (permalink)
Zoom-Zoomin
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Terrorizing other drivers in Killadelphia, PA
Posts: 1,462
iTrader: (1)
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
I think it's a function of the tire and the slip angle. Unlike fmshaw, I have skipped in my GS-D3s. Only at autocrosses however. I only recall it happening at large slip angles and possibly if braking too hard and late into a turn (ie didn't slow down enough to make an apex and had to save it from taking out a cone or going off course). So I've had tires skip when I was pretty far over the limit. Our autocross courses typically have broken asphalt or bumps in them and that may be a factor too.
__________________
Paul
2009 Mazdaspeed3 | 1995 Miata | 1999 Crystal Blue Base - bought 6/13/02, sold 3/11/09
paulyg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2005, 12:18 PM   #11 (permalink)
sportin' the 4x4....
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Lower Wisconsin Car: Black '97 Prelude Chicagoland Prelude Club
Posts: 6,527
iTrader: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
I can see skipping over uneven surfaces, however, the only other time I have expereinced skipping of a tire is when I used to run higher tires pressures in the rear compared to the front.... I now run lower pressures in the rear. The higher pressures didn't allow the tire to flex enough and it would just skip instead of "bow" and slide out.

Either way, if you are rolling the tire that far onto the sidewall I think you either need to provide more air, or drive with less agression. You are obivously pushing the tire past it's limits.
__________________
Jason

Don't argue with stupid people, they will bring you to their level and beat you with experience.
Mugenlude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2005, 04:34 PM   #12 (permalink)
Supporting Member
PreludeOnline Premium Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 3,035
iTrader: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
The problem was that it's got 40 psi of pressure at the time of incident, and the tire max PSI is 42, and I was taking a normal left hand turn at ~25 mph. I agree that it's higher than normal entry speed as the light was changing (chose to go instead of slam on the brakes) but sheesh I never imagined that the tire would roll up like that as even in our minivan the car wouldn't of had such drama.

The biggest thing w/ these skips is that the car literally started to slide, stopped, corrected itself, and fell over again. It's sorta like a half fish tail w/o any power added instead of just hearing the tires skip along the ground. It was violent enough to be upsetting. It was much more violent than the skipping that occurs at high slip angles when you're understeering. Seems like I just need to trash these tires, sooner the better. Ugh, anyone who says the ES100's are good is lying or running a 45 series or below (they get a steel insert in the sidewall at those profiles.)
TimeRacer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2005, 11:08 AM   #13 (permalink)
Supporting Member
Zack's smirking revenge
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin
Posts: 264
iTrader: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
If you've never felt the "skipping" before it may have been an anomaly due to the road surface, and the dynamics of the car at the time. Remembering the poor weight distribution of a Prelude, the high probability of coming over the crest of the road upsetting your chassis, and lifting the throttle.

BUT...Running 40r psi on the street may be contributing to your skipping issue. High pressure tires do not "let go" controllably, linearly and communicatively as something lower pressured, with your high-ish spring rate, and medium roll bar setting, I'd expect it to skip... IMO you see the sidewall marks because of the landing from the 'skip' that lateral load on the tire has to go somewhere when it re-contacts the ground. FWIW I recommend lowering your rear tire pressures 5-6 psi, and drive that for abit.



fmshaw1971: What canyons? There is nothing in Austin than can be reasonably called a canyon... Tein SS spring rates are ~ 448f/224r even w/ the Neuspeed R.sway, its not comparable 550 + a medium Progress sway.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques,Mar 8 2006, 12:15 PM
Damn you guys and your Miatas!


2007 FP... 6fth; 2008: just tryin not to be DFL
mtbprelude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2005, 01:49 PM   #14 (permalink)
Supporting Member
PreludeOnline Premium Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 3,035
iTrader: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
I'll try running them at 34 psi again, I tried that early in their life and the car felt and acted like a boat. It would bounce around any bump (going straight as well) as seemingly these tires sidewalls act more like undampened springs. But if it makes them predictable, I'm willing to try it.
TimeRacer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2005, 07:07 PM   #15 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 2,679
iTrader: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbprelude
fmshaw1971: What canyons? There is nothing in Austin than can be reasonably called a canyon... Tein SS spring rates are ~ 448f/224r even w/ the Neuspeed R.sway, its not comparable 550 + a medium Progress sway.
There is only a 2mm difference between the Progress and the Neuspeed and while you can adjust the endlinks on the Progress, the Neuspeed has some beefy ass supports. As for spring rate, I did not say I was sprung as stiffly, but the SS are about mid-level compared to everything else on the market. Regardless, I can relate to his problems and was attempting to provide some insight. Since I routinely roll my tires in hard cornering (my sidewalls are 10x worse than his in that picture) but have no skipping issues with GSD3s, I can say without a doubt that rolling does not necessarily mandate skipping. My BFG G-Force KDWs, rolled also, but they did skip like crazy and they scared the hell out of me.

As for canyons, we have nothing like they do in Ca, but I was attempting to describe a situation where, if you lose control of your tires at the limit because they skip unpredicatably, you could plummet 100 feet or more down a hill. As for 100 foot drop-offs, there are half a dozen in the city limits (Bullock Holllow, 2222, City Park Rd, Westlake Dr, and a few others I don't know by name), and dozens in the hill country. I feel 10x more confident with my GSD3s at the limit because I can predict how they will slide out and when. An unpredicatable tire is a hell of a lot more disconcerting to me at the limit than it would be autocrosser.
__________________

97 EGP Base 5spd Prelude. Engine: DC short ram, DC SS headers, AEM pulleys, Random High flow cat, Mugen sport exhaust, Apexi VAFC. Suspension: Tein SS, Tanabe front lower tie, Neuspeed front upper strut, Neuspeed rear sway, Tanabe rear upper strut, DC rear lower tie, 17X7.5 5Zigen Typhoons with 215/40/17 Goodyear F1 GS-D3s. Other: Bride Ergo II, Spoon oil cap, Magnecor wires, relocated Odyssey 680 battery, Denso iridiums, Mugen pedals, Mugen lugnuts, shortened shifter w/ Momo airleather, Rotora slotted rotors and Endless NA-Y pads, Goodridge SS lines.

Last edited by fmshaw1971; 05-17-2005 at 08:56 PM.
fmshaw1971 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2005, 09:14 PM   #16 (permalink)
Drew
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 880
iTrader: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by fmshaw1971
I was attempting to describe a situation where, if you lose control of your tires at the limit because they skip unpredicatably, you could plummet 100 feet or more down a hill. As for 100 foot drop-offs, there are half a dozen in the city limits (Bullock Holllow, 2222, City Park Rd, Westlake Dr, and a few others I don't know by name), and dozens in the hill country. I feel 10x more confident with my GSD3s at the limit because I can predict how they will slide out and when. An unpredicatable tire is a hell of a lot more disconcerting to me at the limit than it would be autocrosser.
All great reasons why you shouldnt drive 10/10ths on a city road.
__________________
alvanderp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2005, 04:18 AM   #17 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 2,679
iTrader: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Nor should people smoke, bungee jump, skydive, cave dive, rappel, hang glide, mountaineer, or basically race in any form. Many humans seek thrills. Personally, I get no excitement from the danger element. I don't get an adrenaline rush from risking my neck. I just like to drive fast at the limit. If I lived near Sebring, Watkins Glen, or Road America do you think I would waste my time on inferior public roads? Not a chance! I live near no nice road courses nor could I afford the fortune it would take to race at them.

We should ban public air shows. There is a much greater risk of killing innocent spectators there. Damn the stunt pilots! Damn every sprint car track with nothing but poles and chicken wire to protect the spectators! Why is there an Autobahn? No one NEEDS to drive over 140kph! Driving is inherently dangerous, even at sanctioned events. How many videos have you seen of rally cars running into crowds? For that matter, everyone has probably seen the video of the Corvette losing control in an autocross and taking out people.
__________________

97 EGP Base 5spd Prelude. Engine: DC short ram, DC SS headers, AEM pulleys, Random High flow cat, Mugen sport exhaust, Apexi VAFC. Suspension: Tein SS, Tanabe front lower tie, Neuspeed front upper strut, Neuspeed rear sway, Tanabe rear upper strut, DC rear lower tie, 17X7.5 5Zigen Typhoons with 215/40/17 Goodyear F1 GS-D3s. Other: Bride Ergo II, Spoon oil cap, Magnecor wires, relocated Odyssey 680 battery, Denso iridiums, Mugen pedals, Mugen lugnuts, shortened shifter w/ Momo airleather, Rotora slotted rotors and Endless NA-Y pads, Goodridge SS lines.

Last edited by fmshaw1971; 05-18-2005 at 04:26 AM.
fmshaw1971 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2005, 01:11 PM   #18 (permalink)
Supporting Member
Zack's smirking revenge
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin
Posts: 264
iTrader: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Time racer: Sounds like a good start. In addition to changing your tire pressures, maybe go softer on your sway bar? You have 550# springs, which will definitely contribute to skipping, your sway bar should balance that out a little bit. The stiffness of the bar is increase that spring rate, and the tires may not be able to hold that slip angle. As I said before I believe the marks on the sidewall to be resultant from contact with the ground after the "skip". Softer tires and softer sway my increasing the neutrality of the car. Try it and see... let me know how that feels?

fmshaw1971:
1) Because the deflection/twist resistance of a sway bar is approximately the 4th power of the difference in the diameter of the bars, assuming equal length endlinks/mounting points, the progress bar is already 16% (2^4) stiffer than the Neuspeed. On 550lb springs, the Progess bar will be ~88#/inches STIFFER than the Neuspeed bar. I've taken some liberties and assumed same spring rate (550) and stiffness setting (distance from axis of rotation/deflection) but you get the idea: "Only 2mm" is a huge difference.
2) "I am also sprung pretty highly in the rear (Tein SS)" 224/550 = .407 = 40.7% You have 41% of the spring rate he does ignoring sway bars.

Now on the subject of your joyriding/thrillseeking/whatever, Don't try to romanticize it as more than that, you are getting an adrenaling rush from the speed/danger etc. People (like me) are taking offense because:
3) The issue on those roads is not what is going to happen to YOU. All of them go to and from recreational areas, or though NEIGHBORHOODS and are highly travelled, so the question is, what is going to happen when you come around one of the innumerable off-camber, crested, changing radius, blind corners, at 10/10ths and there is someone ELSE there. The difference in all those things you listed and high speed public road driving is that everyone in everyone of those situations knowingly, and voluntarily placed themselves in potential danger.
4) The excuse that there are no nice road courses is the dark, stinky stuff and you know it. There are several within comfortable driving distance: Texas World Speedway, Texas Motorsport Ranch and so on, and they have reasonably priced HPDEs. Definitely not "world class" but efficient enough for a speed freak. Autocross events are very cheap, and there is one every other weekend or even more frequently.
5) No money to race? See #3... got money to pay for that?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques,Mar 8 2006, 12:15 PM
Damn you guys and your Miatas!


2007 FP... 6fth; 2008: just tryin not to be DFL
mtbprelude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2005, 05:31 PM   #19 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 2,679
iTrader: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Regardless of the spring rate, my point was and still is the fact that my setup is stiff enough to make my tires roll rather than deflect the wheel. With that being true, I can provide insight into his problem. If I can roll tires with a 215/40 aspect ratio, my setup has to be resonably stiff.

I don't have a problem with you waving your finger at me so long as you do it to everyone else who seeks thrills which endanger spectators or innocent passers by. Like I said, stunt pilots crash and kill scores of people and even crash into neighborhoods nearby. Damn them! Rally drivers often slide off course and run into crowds of spectators. Technically they would all be alive if that driver had declined to seek his thrills through racing. Do you really think that those people are knowingly putting themselves in harms way? They are, but do they really think about it when they go? I'm an avid biker but I can tell you that I am not dumb enough to ride on Bullock Hollow Road. (and you've been known to exceed the speed limit on this road also) When I ride my bike, I knowingly put myself in a much more dangerous situation. That's why I don't go on roads with blind corners. I assume as much or more of my own risk on my bike than an innocent spectator who gets killed at an event. Am I to blame because someone slams into me on my bike? Of course not, but I am equally as responsible for my own situation as any spectator who gets killed at a "thrill" event. You'll say that speeding around corners is illegal and that's what makes it wrong. Fine. Then we need to make illegal all thrill events that kill innocent people needlessly. If you will condemn all thrill events then fine. That includes autocrosses.

BTW, I am not saying that speeding on public roads is ok. It's not. It's illegal, but frankly I don't care enough to stop. What bothers me is condemnation for taking the same risks that take place at sanctioned events. Innocent people die at sanctioned events, but are you willing to condemn them also?
__________________

97 EGP Base 5spd Prelude. Engine: DC short ram, DC SS headers, AEM pulleys, Random High flow cat, Mugen sport exhaust, Apexi VAFC. Suspension: Tein SS, Tanabe front lower tie, Neuspeed front upper strut, Neuspeed rear sway, Tanabe rear upper strut, DC rear lower tie, 17X7.5 5Zigen Typhoons with 215/40/17 Goodyear F1 GS-D3s. Other: Bride Ergo II, Spoon oil cap, Magnecor wires, relocated Odyssey 680 battery, Denso iridiums, Mugen pedals, Mugen lugnuts, shortened shifter w/ Momo airleather, Rotora slotted rotors and Endless NA-Y pads, Goodridge SS lines.

Last edited by fmshaw1971; 05-18-2005 at 06:06 PM.
fmshaw1971 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2005, 06:05 PM   #20 (permalink)
Drew
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 880
iTrader: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
I'm sorry, but if you think that the regular commuter traffic on your "canyon road" travels on that road knowing that you will be flying around wrecklessly, and shares in the consequence of you running into them, you need your head examined.

The average Rally spectator is quite aware that the car can go off course, so is the autocross cone shagger. In fact, the autocross cone shagger generally has explicit rules to follow, including never sitting down, and never turning their backs to a car on course(2 things you will see not being followed in your corvette video example above).

The fact remains that all the examples you have made are CLOSED COURSE scenarios. In order for you to get anywhere near where the event is happening, a waiver must be signed, making the "passer by" quite well aware of the danger, and putting the consequences in their hands.

Your "canyon driving" does not give the others around you the same choice. They may just be on their way home, yet you deem it their responsibility to know that you might be re-enacting an episode of Initial D in the same area. Its irresponsible, and exceedingly dangerous to anyone around you, no matter how you try to rationalize it.
__________________
alvanderp is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Honda Prelude Forum > Racing > Autocross & Road Racing


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:59 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1