Toyo Proxes R888 - Honda Prelude Forum

vwong · 09-11-2007, 12:57 PM

Couple months ago, Toyo released the new R-comp tire called Proxes R888. Well, if you have checked Toyo's website, the smallest size available now is 235/40/17. I searched the Japanese website, and found that they have 225/45/16 available over in Japan. So I emailed Toyo, and they told me that 225/45/16 will be released here in the States in the 4th quarter of 2007. Yeeehaaaaa!!!!

Finally, there is a 16" size R-comp tire (from Toyo) that won't affect the gearing much. I can't wait....I'm so excited!!!

Here is a pic of what R888 looks like.

71dsp · 09-11-2007, 02:03 PM

The question is, will Honda Challenge and other classes in NASA allow this for the Toyo Spec tire?

The R888 has to be shaved still right?

It is good news, though. A 225/45/16 would convince me to go with 16s. That would solve a lot of problems I'm having right now.... Let's hope Toyo does in fact bring it over and NASA allows its use in HC!!!

Vincent, do you have your comp license yet?

Also, do you have the specs for the 225/45/16 or a link to the Japanese web site? I'll have to do a quick google search...

71dsp · 09-11-2007, 02:10 PM

Ok, I did a quick search.

Size: 225/45R16
Load: 89W
OD: 605mm (23.8")
OAW: 228mm (9.0" ugh)
Static Radius: 281mm (11.1")
Revs per Mile: 872
Weight: 9.4 kg (20.7 lbs)
Allowed rim width: 7.0" - 8.5"

It's a little narrower than I'd like, but still an improvement over what's currently available. The ideal situation would be 16x8s with these tires allowed in H2.

Check that. The ideal situation would be 15x8s with Hoosiers in H2, but if it has to be Toyos, I'd be more than happy with this combo.

paulyg · 09-11-2007, 02:58 PM

I hope they don't pull a Falken on us. Would be a good option for an HPDE/track day tire. Any word on price?

All I've heard about it is same construction & compound as the RA-1. Don't know if that's true. Would be nice to not have to throw metric tons of camber at the tire to make it work and to have more grip in general.

Ninja edit: Is the 225/45/16 tire going to be the smallest tire they make or are they also going to offer it in Civic/Integra sizes?

71dsp · 09-11-2007, 03:07 PM

I hope they offer it in 15" sizes. If not, there's no way they'll allow it in HC if HC is to stick to one specific spec tire.

I've heard both same construction and same compound, but I've also been told different construction same compound, so who the hell knows.

I've never seen that the Toyo takes a ton of camber. I don't believe it takes more than a Hoosier, does it?

Also, pull a Falken on us? Eh? Can you enlighten the masses? At least this tire is actually being produced. Perhaps all they need to do is get DOT approval?

vwong · 09-11-2007, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 71dsp

The question is, will Honda Challenge and other classes in NASA allow this for the Toyo Spec tire?

I would hope so. I thought the R888 will eventually replace the RA-1.

Quote:

The R888 has to be shaved still right?

Well, Toyo's website says that it can be shaved to optimize dry traction. R888's tread depth is 6/32nd whereas the RA-1 is 8/32nd.

Quote:

Vincent, do you have your comp license yet?

No, not yet. I still haven't gotten a cage yet.

I know....I know what you're thinking. "Get your ass out there on the track and get your comp license. Then come out to Texas so DR and I can put couple of donuts on your car." -71dsp

71dsp · 09-11-2007, 05:19 PM

http://www.racetire.com/products/toyo_r888.htm

They have some release dates. I'm not sure how accurate it is, not to mention production delays and what not. David thinks HC will be on RA1s for at least the 08 season, which really puts me in a bind. I believe the contract with Toyo ends at the end of the 08 season, but I could be wrong.

It looks like Civic/Integra sizes (205/50/15 and 225/45/15) will be available 4Q07 and 1Q08, according to the link. No 225/50/15, though.

LowFlyin' · 09-11-2007, 09:15 PM

Why would you want a 225/50/15? Too tall. And about the 8" wide wheel...why? The widest allowed in H2 is 7".

EDIT - Nevermind...I reread your statement and caught the "ideal setup".

paulyg · 09-11-2007, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 71dsp

I've never seen that the Toyo takes a ton of camber. I don't believe it takes more than a Hoosier, does it?

Everyone I've talked too (and this is admittedly not many ppl) told me the RA-1 needs a lot of camber.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 71dsp

Also, pull a Falken on us? Eh? Can you enlighten the masses? At least this tire is actually being produced. Perhaps all they need to do is get DOT approval?

Falken told a few promenient autocrossers that they were going to make the RT-615 in a 225/45/16. Then they decided not to.

alphajesse · 09-12-2007, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulyg

Everyone I've talked too (and this is admittedly not many ppl) told me the RA-1 needs a lot of camber.

Falken told a few promenient autocrossers that they were going to make the RT-615 in a 225/45/16. Then they decided not to.

That's not as bad as signing a deal to be the spec tire for a series, and then failing to manufacture enough of said tire to keep up with demand.

71dsp · 09-12-2007, 04:42 AM

Just to answer your questions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LowFlyin'

Why would you want a 225/50/15? Too tall.

I don't drive a Civic/Integra/CRX.

A 23.8" OD tire is just about perfect for TWS. Anything smaller, and I run out of 5th gear waaaaaay too soon on the front straight. Stock OD is right at 24". A 225/45/16 is roughly the same OD as a 225/50/15.

One note of interest, Andrie runs a 235/40/17 on his Civic, and it's a 24.4" OD tire!

Quote:

Originally Posted by LowFlyin'

And about the 8" wide wheel...why? The widest allowed in H2 is 7".

A 225/50/15 Hoosier fits almost perfect on a 8" wide wheel (really should use an 8.5" wide wheel if I could fit it). It's quite pinched on a 7" wide wheel. In fact, my 225/50/15 Hoosier R6s on an 8" wide wheel are wider than a Toyo 245/45/16 on a 7" wide wheel.

LowFlyin' · 09-12-2007, 08:01 AM

I can see the benefit of a 8" wide wheel...that's why I went with the RX7 wheels when I had my 5th Gen. I just misread your post. Hell...I wouldn't mind an 8" wheel either! I have 195 street tires on my Koseis (15x7), and it fits just right. So I know a 225 race tire is going to be pretty meaty. I'll have to keep the 225/50/15s in mind. I didn't think about gearing. Hell, why would I? The only track I've known is Hallett...and I know I'm not going to run the gearing all the way out there.

71dsp · 09-12-2007, 08:22 AM

You need to come out and run TWS. On a med-to-high HP car, the track is an absolute blast.

vwong · 09-12-2007, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulyg

Everyone I've talked too (and this is admittedly not many ppl) told me the RA-1 needs a lot of camber.

I've talked to couple of fast HC drivers here, and they both told me that they run -3 to -3.5 degrees of camber in the front, and anywhere between -5 to -6 degrees in the rear. However, they also told me that in order to run with these camber settings, they also run very stiff springs and must have aero (i.e. front splitter and rear wing).

vwong · 09-12-2007, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 71dsp

One note of interest, Andrie runs a 235/40/17 on his Civic, and it's a 24.4" OD tire!

He also has 6 gears though.

71dsp · 09-12-2007, 01:21 PM

Yes, but I doubt he even uses 6th. 6 gears or 5 gears, it doesn't really matter if you change the FD to match the tire OD.

As for camber, I didn't realize they were running so much. I run about -3 with the Hoosiers in front and -1.5 or so in the rear. I'm going to change my rear UCAs to allow for more camber adjustment though. I'll probably start with more camber up front too.

Why do they need high spring rates and aero with those camber settings? What would the camber settings need to be without aero or softer spring settings (I'm running 750 front and 950 rear, but I'm going to experiment with sway bar options).

vwong · 09-12-2007, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 71dsp

Why do they need high spring rates and aero with those camber settings? What would the camber settings need to be without aero or softer spring settings (I'm running 750 front and 950 rear, but I'm going to experiment with sway bar options).

This is what was explained to me by the HC driver, so please don't shoot the messenger.

As you're cornering, the car leans and is loading the outside tires. The contact area at the outside tires actually increases. With rear camber angle set at -6 degrees and very high spring rates (more than 1000 lbs/in), you won't be using the entire width of the rear outside tire. Instead, you're only using maybe 1/3rd the width of the rear outside tire. This will help the car to rotate better in slower corners (roughly 50 mph or slower).

In faster corners (80 mph or faster), that is where the aero will help. The downforce generated by the rear wing will push the rear of the car down a bit more, therefore increasing the rear contact patch. So the car won't be very loose in fast corners.

71dsp · 09-12-2007, 08:25 PM

Very interesting read. Thanks for the info regarding the tires.

Now I wonder what kind of spoke clearance the various 16x7s that are available have...

alvanderp · 09-12-2007, 09:15 PM

Billy - I had to run a 5mm spacer on my 16x7+40 slipstreams to clear the Rotora BBK - but that caliper seemed to be a bit wider than your wilwoods are. Maybe you can get 18racing to send you one to test fit.

Jacques · 09-14-2007, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vwong

In faster corners (80 mph or faster), that is where the aero will help. The downforce generated by the rear wing will push the rear of the car down a bit more, therefore increasing the rear contact patch. So the car won't be very loose in fast corners.

That's assuming the rear wing is really giving downforce, or it's there just for looks.