How can I stop my car from nose plowing in high speed corners? My rear end is really planted and when I enter a corner at high speed the wheels turn but the car plows stright then grabs really hard and throws into a corner, am I just entering a turn to fast or is there something I can do to smooth this out?
Are you saying that when you enter a high speed turn, you turn the steering wheel, the car understeers badly, then all of a sudden the front end gets traction and the car turns? If that's the case, I'd say you need to be smoother with your steering inputs.
Otherwise, you need to dial out some of the understeer with stiffer rear springs or a stiffer rear sway bar. Softening the front end (relative to the rear) will have the same effect.
Few other things besides what Billy said:
1. Using older more worn tires in the back
2. Using wider tires in front and/or narrower tires in the rear.
3. Put excessive air in the rear tires.
4. Use less camber and/or more toe out in the rear
I often do a combination of all of these plus I have a stiff rear swawbar and springs and still get understeer in some situations. Unfortunately that is the curse of FWD.
__________________ David Rierson
Marcucci Motorsports
98 Prelude #53 NASA Honda Challenge
03 Acura RSX
04 Nissan Armada
06 Kawasaki KLX250S
I ended up having to let off the gas in the corners but I will try the wider tires up front my rear is rediculiously stiff I put my front KYB's to a "2" and the rear to a "4" to try to help
I have Off the shelf GC springs
Progress Rear sway
strut bars front and rear
KYB AGX
Worn Falken Rt 215's
Generally i set my rear shocks to full stiff and the fronts to full soft. I feel that gives me the best front bite and traction, and i "overinflate" the rear tires.
This set up generally gives me slight oversteer on the slow courses that i run (much smaller than the one in the vid)
And if we are running that the airport then the car can get a little tail "happy".
Good luck
__________________
"Racing improves the breed."-Soichiro Honda
"Without racing, there is no Honda."-Soichiro Honda
"Honda is racing."-Hirotoshi Honda, President of Mugen
I have ST front and rear SB's Tanabe front chassis brace dc sports lower tie bar energy suspension bushings with KYB AGX's on RSR drop springs (stiff) and a cheap set of strut bars with some Fusion ZRi's at the corners to keep things sticky
You are driving into the corner too hard, and using too much wheel. This is causing lots of understeer and when you finally slow enough for the front tires to bite, the car jerks inward due to the amount of steering lock you are using. Concentrate on turning earlier and less, along with bleeding speed earlier before the element. Being late for the turn is what causes you to get in these kinds of circumstances.
You are driving into the corner too hard, and using too much wheel. This is causing lots of understeer and when you finally slow enough for the front tires to bite, the car jerks inward due to the amount of steering lock you are using. Concentrate on turning earlier and less, along with bleeding speed earlier before the element. Being late for the turn is what causes you to get in these kinds of circumstances.
Words from the almighty himself.
__________________
I design the world you live in.... Cheers for Industrial Designers!!
95 Integra LS <<<>>> 99 CBM Prelude SH
I ended up having to let off the gas in the corners
I hate to say this, but.... duh! If you are trying to turn in while accelerating no wonder you get understeer. If you are going to be taking a hard corner you need to transfer some weight to the front to help the front tires. You should be off the gas decelerating as you turn in, or very lightly on the brakes. And if you are on the brakes you foot should be off the brakes before you have turned the wheel as far as you are going to turn it. Too much brake and the car will not turn at all either.
The RSR springs, at "30 to 50% stiffer than stock" are not nearly as stiff as those of us running 400, 450, 500 lb springs. I bet you are still getting a good bit of body roll. This will make your turn in feel sloppy. You have to wait for the body to reach the terminal roll angle before the tires will really "bite". The only way to drive around this, as others said, is to turn early and be smooth.
And 2F 4R is how I ran my AGX when I autocrossed with them.
__________________ Paul
2009 Mazdaspeed3 | 1995 Miata | 1999 Crystal Blue Base - bought 6/13/02, sold 3/11/09
You're overdriving the car/tires by either entering the corner with excessive speed, or braking while turning and 'overloading' the front outside tire. Try going slower into the corners, and braking only in straight lines.
If you go to an auto-x school, you generally hear the phrase, "you must go slow to go fast," for good reasons.
I have ST front and rear SB's Tanabe front chassis brace dc sports lower tie bar energy suspension bushings with KYB AGX's on RSR drop springs (stiff) and a cheap set of strut bars with some Fusion ZRi's at the corners to keep things sticky
Get rid of your ST front swaybar, and put your stock one back on. In general, bigger front swaybar does nothing but re-introduces understeer back into a FWD car.
And like everyone has said, try a slower entry speed then accelerate out. Just remember, "slow in, fast out".
__________________ 2009 BMW 335i Coupe, Alpine White/Black Dakota, 6MT
2010 Audi S4, Ibis White/Magma Red, 6MT
I find it much easier to turn my car when I'm on the gas, and when I keep the Rev's singing between 5-8k this seems like I have alot more control over the car, the down side in that video is that I was inbetween 1-2 gear, I had to wait for the SS to downshift thats what the delay was on that part, as far as braking sooner I was tring to carry as much speed as possiable through the corners and not accellerate during them. I figured its be smoother as far as shifting weight and accelerating while the car was cornering to not accelerate in the corner, the plan for that area was to coast through then downshift at the exit of the last corner to maximize my exit speed. I will be going out again on October 21st in Brooksville Florida, I'll be attending a BMW event so hopefully I can get some useful tips in the mean time. I've heard that the ST sway bar is to much but It hasn't really bothered me nearly as much as the stock setup-then again when I was stock I was all stock, when I bought the suspension, I bought everything. So I don't know what the middle ground is like. I also think a bit more power would come in handy too. Most of the Tracks that I run are for something like a Corvette setup they generally have a long stright away set up, the one time they didn't a freak'n Honda whooped'em haha! I'm picking up the last few pieces for my 5 speed conversion is there anything that I should look into, mod wise while I have the transmission in bits and pieces that will help out the autocross times??
Interesting,, I know that works well for R-compounds because you actually "bulge" the contact surface, but I find when I'm on Street rubber (Toyo T1-S). If I run the rears lower than the front's my car handles much more neutrally.
Reason being that I run the fronts hard and the rears soft(er) (about 42psi F and 38psi R ). This way I induces a bit of rollover on the sidewall of the rear tires actually reducing the amount of contact patch because tread lifts off the road surface on a hard corner. The front running hard actually stiffens the sidewall keeping more contact patch on the ground.
BTW I'm on Tein HA 12kg/mm front,10 kg/mm rear, generally set to 12 clicks hard F and 14 clicks R (on the track). Neuspeed 28mm rear anti-swaybar and Stock Front anti-swaybar. 215/40-17 Toyo T1-S because I can't find R compound in that size and i need 17" rims to fit over my Rotors. I also have a Quaife LSD so maybe that also makes a difference.
I'm near the top of 3rd (6800-7000 rpm- there abouts, SR tranny, h22 motor) in the photo... notice how "pushed over "my rear tires are...
Grant do you run in a class in the SCCA or are you just out there for fun?
I'm just out there for fun.. Unfortunately, the way my life is, I cannot commit to a set schedule to compete. I rarely know what I'm doing until a half an hour before it happens... much of my life I spend working and waiting...:P
Get rid of your ST front swaybar, and put your stock one back on. In general, bigger front swaybar does nothing but re-introduces understeer back into a FWD car.
And like everyone has said, try a slower entry speed then accelerate out. Just remember, "slow in, fast out".
How do you guys avoid the bog down between 1st and 2nd, If I slow down with my SS I'm stuck bogged down in second and either have to slow down enough to catch the top of first or try to crawl away at the bottom of second. What would be a better path to take to improve the power gap, right now I'm all stock engine (minus the juice) wise and all suspension. Should I just look to losing weight to improve the cars characteristics or perhaps choose a path of either AM or FI.
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