I finally put the Koni Sports on my car this past Friday. Now I have some questions/concerns.
First is with the bump stops. I greased them up to get them over the welded step on the shock shaft. That was after I tried to drill on of them out. The drill bit (5/8" dia) just widened the hole but did not cut into the foam. I'm concerned that the bump stops are not riding up over the steps and thus are taking away from what is already precious bump travel. I have been getting some bottoming or rubbing on sharp bumps. I do need to raise the right side of the car some, maybe 1/4". But I don't want to take away any shock travel if I don't have too. How did you get the bumpstops to go over the step in the shaft?
Second. What settings did you run if you drove on the street? I started out with a very mild 1/4 turn from full soft in front and 1/2 turn from full soft in the rear. Of course it was smooth but bouncy. I have been increasing the shocks firmness every time I drive the car. I am at 3/4 turn from soft front and rear and the car still feels underdamped to me. The shocks max out at 1 1/4 turns, right? And you shouldn't do more than one turn on the street, correct? Are the shocks worn? I am on Ground Controls with 400 lb/in springs front and rear.
TIA
- Paul
__________________ Paul
2009 Mazdaspeed3 | 1995 Miata | 1999 Crystal Blue Base - bought 6/13/02, sold 3/11/09
at 400-500 rate your at the upper limmet of the koni shocks, so it's normal to have them near the full stiff range.
as for the bunp stops, I'm not sure what type you got with the kit. My bump stops looked like little washers with a slot in them that sit on top of the shock body (not much of a stop really).
Yes you are going to have to run the shocks close to full stiff so that they arent underdamped. this will also result in a harsh ride. the only way around this is to revavle them. then you will be able to ride with them at full soft with no problems.
MRW, hes putting the OEM bumpstops on the Konis. I cut my bump stops in half when i installed them. And I too was never able to get them to stay on the stays.
I got the bumpstops from Ground Control, so it wasn't an issue for me to have them fit over the Konis. Personally, I thought it was worth the extra money .
I'm using 450/475 GC rates, and I set my Konis to about 1- 1.5 turn from full stiff. If it's more towards full soft, then the ride becomes extremely bouncy, and if it's more towards full stiff, then the ride becomes way too harsh for daily driving. At first I missed my Neuspeed Sport Springs/Tokico HP setup, but now I'm used to the feeling. It's definitely stiff, but not unbearable for daily driving.
Yeah, I guess I should have clarified. I have the OEM bump stops that are already cut in half.
Brian: if you are running 1-1.5 turns from full stiff wouldn't that be full soft? You only get 1.25 or 1.5 turns to the adjuster?!
Thing is, I previously had 380f/250r Ground Controls over AGX shocks and the ride was much more controlled even with the AGXs at 2F/3R. I was under the impression that the Konis had more aggressive rebound rates then the AGX.
__________________ Paul
2009 Mazdaspeed3 | 1995 Miata | 1999 Crystal Blue Base - bought 6/13/02, sold 3/11/09
as for the bunp stops, I'm not sure what type you got with the kit. My bump stops looked like little washers with a slot in them that sit on top of the shock body (not much of a stop really).
Those aren't bump stops. Koni does not provide bump stops with their shocks, you have to order them separately.
The bump stops don't necessarily have to be secured at the top of the shock mount. I REALLY doubt that little lip is enough to keep the bumpstop from working effectively if you're bottoming out the suspension. The bumpstop will either go around that lip, or it'll just rip the bumpstop. When you bottom out the suspension, there's a tremendous amount of force at work. I'd imagine since you cut your stock bumpstops in half, and since they're quite soft, they're not enough to keep the suspension from bottoming fully, thus causing the rubbing.
How many turns do you get from stop to stop? I don't recall how many I had, but I thought it was more than 1.5 turns. You can run the shocks all the way up to stiff, minus 1/8 turn. Don't run them at full stiff, you'll damage the damping mechanism.
Try raising the car a bit, running the shocks close to full stiff, then see how it feels. The front will always feel a bit soft, at least my OTS Konis did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulyg
Yeah, I guess I should have clarified. I have the OEM bump stops that are already cut in half.
Brian: if you are running 1-1.5 turns from full stiff wouldn't that be full soft? You only get 1.25 or 1.5 turns to the adjuster?!
Thing is, I previously had 380f/250r Ground Controls over AGX shocks and the ride was much more controlled even with the AGXs at 2F/3R. I was under the impression that the Konis had more aggressive rebound rates then the AGX.
Fro nearly identical spring rates (450) I ran the car with the shocks set 1/4 turn from full firm in the front, and full firm in the rear for autocross. Street, I backed both off a further 1/4 turn.
I had my suspension set up by Bill Kim of Soulspeed, and he raised my car slightly from where I had it so as to get 1" full inch of shock travel before contact with a 1/3" tall bump stop that had been modified so that the outer edge was made more conical. Making the bump stop itself progressive. (?)
For the spring vs damping rates he said this was the best setup given OTS Koni's. Different cars, different weights, different driving styles so of course YMMV.
I ran with my bumpstops cut in half, and I forced them over that hump. With my 450/450 setup I ran the front about 1/2 turn from full soft, and rear 1/2 from full stiff on the street. For racing I stiffened up the rear all the way (minus 1/8 turn).
If your shocks are feeling less controled than your old AGX setup I would have a sneaking suspition that they need to be revalved.
I got new bump stops with the ES HyperFlex Kit...and they were about half the length of the OEM stops. Plus, they were polyurethane.
I believe (on the Konis) you should get 720 degrees up and down from neutral...which should be 4 turns "lock to lock".
Que? Neither set I've owned(the converted DA's on the Prelude or the OTS ones on the S) has had that much adjustment. At max its 2 full rotations. Although I did notice that the amount of adjustment wasnt the same front to rear. If I recall, there was more available adjustment in the front than rear.
Brian: if you are running 1-1.5 turns from full stiff wouldn't that be full soft? You only get 1.25 or 1.5 turns to the adjuster?!
Thing is, I previously had 380f/250r Ground Controls over AGX shocks and the ride was much more controlled even with the AGXs at 2F/3R. I was under the impression that the Konis had more aggressive rebound rates then the AGX.
As Drew pointed out, I think the max amount of rotations is about 2-3 turns. I don't remember nor have an accurate way of measuring how many turns you can make on the Konis, but it's around that number. I wouldn't be surprised if it's time for your dampers to be revalved because with the spring rates your using and being 1/2 turn from full stiff, it shouldn't be bouncy. Rather, it should feel harsh and as if your back is going to break...well at least that's how it is in my opinion.
not a joke. I have no bump stops on the shocks at all. The rear has never bottomed out on my car ever over the past 4 years. 1000lbs/ich springs with only 450lbs of car over them keep them from bottoming out. As for the front they will bottom out if I go off track and hit some big pumps, but the upper A-arm hits the inside of the shock tower before the shocks run out of travel, thus no need to put a bump stop on the shock. I did, however, glue some rubber pads to the inside of the shock tower were the upper A-arm hits which is sort of like a bump stop just not on the shock itself.
Are your front shocks shortened? You're right, the rear never bottoms, as I've never experienced it before. However, I did blow a Koni shock on the front by not using a bumpstop. This was with an OTS Koni Sport, though. Nothing shortened. On my 3011s, the upper control arms hit first as well, but for insurance I keep bumpstops on the shocks.
I could be wrong on the adjustment of the Konis. It's been awhile.
As far as the strength of the Koni's...I was disappointed with them. It felt like the Neuspeed Race Springs were too much for them, OTS, and the Neuspeed spring weren't close the stated 600# upper limit of the shocks.
__________________
Chris @ DeatschWerks (Fuel Nerd)
1991 CRX SiR
1991 Civic Wagon RT4WD
OK. Apperently I am going crazy. I went outside and tried the adjustment again an low-and-behold I get 2 full turn in the front and a little more than 2 full turns in the rear. One of the front shocks got a little stiffer to turn at about 1.25 turns so I must have thought that was the end of the travel. So I set the front and rear both 1 turn from full stiff and took a drive for lunch. The ride was much firmer and more controlled. I'm going to back it off some from there for everyday driving.
I still need to raise the car up more. My apartment is on a huge hill so I can't set the ride height there. I brought my jack to work and did it there. I raised the right front some. It is 13.125 from CL of the wheel to the fender. Now I am having trouble turning the spring perches by hand again due to the preload on the spring, especially with just one wheel up in the air. Ugg. The left front is 13.375, and that is right where I the ride height.
__________________ Paul
2009 Mazdaspeed3 | 1995 Miata | 1999 Crystal Blue Base - bought 6/13/02, sold 3/11/09
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