Just finished my first HPDE this weekend at Infineon Raceway (Sears Point) and while it was fun to be on the track I noticed a lot. Noticeably the track feels a lot smaller than it does in GT4. All the turns and straights seemed a lot shorter. But the line was more or less dead on.
I went with HPDE 1/2 with NASA and it is going to be interesting to say the least if this is a typical turnout for their HPDE events as 75%+ of the group had quite a bit more power than me. As in M3, Evo, STi, WRX, Mustang Cobra, 350z, S2000, Vette... yada yada. One of the Evo MR's that was out there was "de-tuned" to 360 whp, but the owner said that if he was on race gas (110) he could be running 550 whp at 30+ PSI. But in any case at Infineon there's only 3 places where they allow passing for HPDE 1/2 and in this group they basically say "you paid for the line, you own the line. You're under no obligation to allow anyone to pass. Stay on the line." Plus they shunned upon passing on the inside lines the majority of the day. So it was a hard day passing as you're waiting for people to take the line and get out of the way which usually killed any momentum you had on them, but I put greater than my share of cars behind me. Yes, I do realize that it isn't a race, my instructor actually told me that I wasn't as agressive as I could be passing as I didn't trust a lot of these people braking. Some of them took more than double I would need to brake, so became quite hard to predict them. After I got a feel for the track after 5 laps in the first run the only car that passed me was the 360 whp Evo so the autocross experience did do me well. My instructor actually allowed me to run on my own (came up with a friend) after 2 sessions as he felt he couldn't help further at the speeds we were going.
Funny enough I installed a set of Cobalt VR brake pads for the event and I never got them up to temp during the entire event. I almost did when I got a lap of free air but other than that I think I should of just went up on the Cobalt GT sports that I use for autocross, this is with no ducting at all. So if any one is considering going to a HPDE event I'd just use the brake pads that you have, buying a new set of pads for HPDE 1/2 isn't necessary at all. I was probably hindered by the brakes for the majority of the event, but at least every time we were released it was under a full course yellow. But just as a vote of confidence for the Cobalt VR's... they're actually not horrendous to drive on the street, even with 40 degree ambient temps while driving up to the track the night before. Though I'll probably continue to run the VR's as then I'll have a track set of rotors and a autocross/DD rotors to use with the OEM and GT sport pads.
Oil temps were around 250-260F at the end of every 20 minute session where the only time I was really pushing it was on the passing zones. This is with an additional ~2 quarts in the system due to a remote oil filter setup. I probably filled a half a quart of oil during the entire day checking after each run. Before and during the event I was filling with Mobil 1 Truck & SUV 5w-40 oil for the fills for some additional protection. I probably have about a quart and a half mixed in right now with the rest being Mobil 1 5w-30. So when you get the cool down lap, take it. Even though the warm up and cool off laps take up probably around 5 minutes of the 20 minute session it's worth it for the car IMO.
I watched HPDE4 as well with the Spoon RSX and I think it was a Honda FIT that were out there. The RSX Type-R (Well, Integra Type-R) was incredibly fast and passed people whom were pretty good left and right. Even on the straights it looked like people were standing still while it passed them. Amazing what light weight and a bit of extra power can do.
All in all it was a good experience being out there. I'll probably go out again sometime in the future if anyone in the Nor-Cal region goes. On that note, was anyone else out there? I saw a silver 5th gen that was in HPDE 1/2 with an OEM lip kit, base wheels, and some exhaust but he spun in turn 10. Not sure if he went into the wall but the front lip had come off, hopefully he and his car is okay. The only other incident that I saw in my group was a WRX flying off course after turn 3. Next time maybe I'll have time to make a video, though it won't be all that impressive. You'll probably hear me complaining about the people in front of me as outside of the 3 passing zones I was on cruise control for most of the day. Though the first HPDE group out had NINE spins because it was raining though first runs for everyone.
The passing "rules" sound annoying there. If it's not a race, why would you make it hard for someone to pass you? In the NE group they recommend staying on your line but to slow up if someone is on your ass. Of course, I still find myself getting stuck behind people at times but so far I've found that there's definitely a focus on personal development. Not letting someone by does nothing for you.
Infineon certainly looks like a fun track but challenging. What kind of speeds were you getting up to? At Watkins and Lime Rock I would fry my axxis ultimates every time by the end of the day so I switched over to blues. Much better.
The whole intent (which I sort of understand) for the people to stay on the line and not slow up is to establish consistancy with the unexperienced drivers. The passing flags were just a recommendation and not an order so pass byes were relatively rare this time out. If anyone is curious here's the track map for the configuration we were on.
We were allowed to pass after turn 6 (approximately under the first "A" for Area), between turn 10/11 and after turn 11 - entry of turn 1. The hardest area for me to pass someone was after the carousel (turn 6) as they were really hard about not passing on the inside as you see the line would go out and back in causing a pinch and they didn't want any incidents. It was a matter of sheer luck if the person in front of you would get on that line and if they'd even take that line. Being off on this killed most of my passing chances there since I could never time them right and I couldn't hop to the inside.
I probably hit speeds of around 100-110 on the straight away after 6 if there wasn't anyone blocking me with plenty of time to spare for the brakeing area. But the was only for one lap since that's about all the free air I got for the day. Funny enough though, during this straight my friend's S2k and most of the M3's that I ended up passing didn't make up ground here, only maintained it which was fun to see. Even though I really wanted to reel them in.
Edit: Pictures
Here's the group that I went up with.
And this is what you got to see if I passed you.
I went into the first orientation meeting and my friends had marked up my car. The first time I passed my friend in the S2000 he said he was cracking up along with his instructor. I can only hope that all of the reactions were as good as that.
Welcome to the dark side. Your credit card and check book will never be the same
My oil temps run about the same as yours, 250 to 260 at the end of several hot laps, but they never go any heigher. As long as you use full synthetic that's ok. I have even sent several oil samples out for testing and everything came back ok. I use Amsiol FWIW.
When you get up to group 3 and 4 the overal speeds will go up and you will not be spending time behind long trains like you might have in grp 1 or even 2. It only gets more and more fun each time you go out
Ah, my buddies just went there. A pack of Evos and a EBP lude. I've been meaning to go to one of these events, but just don't have the money, especially now that I'm starting to track my bike oh well....maybe one of these days
Those passing rules are pure BS my friend.. Its asking for an accident.
Here in the east, lifting off the throttle and letting a clean and quick pass in the HPDE envioronment is what is preached in the group 1/2s... When you get into group 3 and 4 when drivers are more advanced do they allow a more "earn it" attitude.
Plus, in a situation like you described, high HP cars would never lift, therefore it would make it difficult for you to pass them when they park their slow asses in the corners
Plus, in a situation like you described, high HP cars would never lift, therefore it would make it difficult for you to pass them when they park their slow asses in the corners
That's basically what happened for the turn 6 passing zone and the passing zone after 11. Which is why I did most of my passing after turn 10 even though that's the trickiest part of the course I never got close to maxing out my grip level there.
Out of curiosity, how did you ascertain that your brakes didn't heat up to optimal temperature? Do you have a heat gun or something? (Personally, I'd feel much safer running race pads too cold than running stock pads too hot).
Got any pics that show the track? It looks really fun from the map.
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"The only thing that needs adjusting is the nut behind the wheel."
Sadly I completely forgot to bring my camera as I fell behind in the car prep Friday night so no extra pictures this time around. Next time I'll finish my friend's cam mount for his Civic and possibly build one for myself if he wants to record mine. As I don't have a cam and it's not in the near future that I'm goign to buy one.
The brakes not reaching optimum operating temp was purely because they only got better and better as the runs progressed. When I actually had some free air I muffed some of the braking zones because I broke way too early since the brake bite became better and easier to modulate, just didn't expect the braking level to increase that much. Hopefully next time I can skip going to group 2 and skip straight to group 3.
But Dan, I see you're autocrossing with SFR again this year, you coming out all year long this time? Want me to drop you a PM the next time I sign up for Infineon?
But Dan, I see you're autocrossing with SFR again this year, you coming out all year long this time? Want me to drop you a PM the next time I sign up for Infineon?
'Sup Doug
I'm doing the SFR thing for the first half of this year, and then later on I plan to maybe mod the car out of stock class and focus more on the track. I just did my first track day at Thunderhill back in December and I'm ready to move into that arena. I like Thunderhill though because there's no walls. I wouldn't be comfortable yet tearing around corners bordered by walls. *shudder*
So yeah, maybe we can do Infineon toward the end of summer or something. You, me and maybe m610 or whoever else is local.
Dan
__________________
"The only thing that needs adjusting is the nut behind the wheel."
Passing rules are different with every club, but for the four that I have gone out with all go with the philosophy that "you paid for all of the track, use all of it".
Passing zones very with run group (skill level) and are generally restricted to the longest straights for the less experienced groups and require point-bys. The rule in all groups is that slower cars, such as Corvettes in the turns, should stay on line in the passing zones (straights) but not get on the throttle to go ahead and let the Miata's go by.
For the most expereinced groups passing anywhere without point-bys is allowed, but dive bombing a turn to get the pass is strongly discouraged.
Thunderhill is a great place to learn. Very little in the way of things to run into and acres of grass to run off into. And it has lots of differet types of turns -- different speeds, off-camber turns, esses, sweepers, two blind turns cresting hills...
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All the turns and straights seemed a lot shorter. But the line was more or less dead on. 
But in any case at Infineon there's only 3 places where they allow passing for HPDE 1/2 and in this group they basically say "you paid for the line, you own the line. You're under no obligation to allow anyone to pass. Stay on the line." Plus they shunned upon passing on the inside lines the majority of the day. So it was a hard day passing as you're waiting for people to take the line and get out of the way which usually killed any momentum you had on them, but I put greater than my share of cars behind me. Yes, I do realize that it isn't a race, my instructor actually told me that I wasn't as agressive as I could be passing as I didn't trust a lot of these people braking. Some of them took more than double I would need to brake, so became quite hard to predict them. After I got a feel for the track after 5 laps in the first run the only car that passed me was the 360 whp Evo so the autocross experience did do me well. 
My instructor actually allowed me to run on my own (came up with a friend) after 2 sessions as he felt he couldn't help further at the speeds we were going. 
I like Thunderhill though because there's no walls. I wouldn't be comfortable yet tearing around corners bordered by walls. *shudder*
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