I been doing autoX in my G35G for the 2nd year now and i have to say that although a heavy turd, this car can still hold its own.
My question to the guys that AutoX, how do you do compare to others. I know its a hard question to answer since all other cars you run against are different and have different mods, but overall from the best person to where you are ... how do you count yourself.
Out of all the runs i did this year, only one time did i see another G at the event. The guy was a novice and had pretty much a brand new car. So he didnt even push it. So i'm stuck trying to compete and compare myself against evo's and sti's, m3s and other more competitive cars.
I am fairly lightly moded. I run sway bars as the only means for suspension mods and stickier tires. Engine mods are: catless, y-pipe, exhaust and plenum spacer. I dynoed at only 223whp.
The crazy part is that i'm trying to push myself to beat these guys with evo's and all these other crazy cars. Am i just being retarded for doing so since its impossible or am i in the right mind set.
__________________
-KIRILL-
Still Single and employed but hate my job! Nothing has changed.
How do I compare? My class, C-Stock is almost a "Spec" class, with everyone in nearly identical cars. Otherwise I use the PAX index to compare my times to others, in other classes.
Alot of us build or buy the car we race to fit in a class where we KNOW it is THE car to have to win the class, and we modify it to fit the rules for that class. From the sounds of the things you have done, your car gets classed SM, or BSP. Your car is dead meat in those classes.
Well, either mod your car to max specs in BSP, or blow quite a bit in the moneypit that is SM...or get a car that's competitive for a particular class. The G35 just isn't competitive at the National level, and even in the local level you're already at a disadvantage with the minimum mods you have now. If nothing else (and I don't know if you have them), get a set of r compounds, and also start thinking what you want to do modwise to get more competitive in either class...assuming of course that your driving ability has gotten to the point that you're driving to the limit of what the car can do at its present state.
__________________
James--'99 Ficus Green Pearl Type SH, 03' Starlight Silver Metallic Pilot EX-L, 02' silver Mitsubishi Galant ES
The value of life can be measured by how many times your soul has been deeply stirred...--Soichiro Honda www.hacstl.com...RIP 1999--2011
assuming of course that your driving ability has gotten to the point that you're driving to the limit of what the car can do at its present state.
That is a big assumption. Pony up the money and go to an Evolution driving school. Once there they'll put you through a course in your own car, then you sit shogun while a more seasoned "pro" goes at it. At the end they show you their time vs. yours and I guarantee you that you will be amazed. The skills you have that you once thought to be on a moderate level will look like utter garbage once you see what the instructor pulled timewise. Then, they teach you how to better yourself to try to get closer to their times.
At the end of the day you're probably not going to beat them but I bet you drop your time by about 3 or 4 seconds (the average from what I saw when I was there).
Bottom line: YOU have to get better. You have to stop thinking about "you vs. some other guy". I mean really put an end to it. You have to compare your times to your own times from the runs before. Don't worry about some other guy in some other car. Don't even give them a second thought.
Mod the car along the way but mod the way you think about a course and drive it more.
Right, but what do you use as the "marker" to quantify your improvement? (I know what I use...)
IMO:
NOBODY can drive at the limit of their car. Solo2 is about minimizing mistakes, the goal is to basically learn to identify mistakes you are making quicker so the correction is smaller, and you stay closer to the limit without going beyond.
Also at some point you reach a plateau, (it seems like it was ~2 year mark I had one) and you don't think you are learning anything new, and you don't think you are going faster. At that point you really just gotta keep showing up, working to find ways to improve, and talking to other guys that are faster. Sometime later it will click and you'll drop a chunk of time again.
EX: I spent alot of time really focusing on driving hard this year. I still hit my marks, put the car where I wanted to, was close to the cones (sometimes too close...) but I wasn't gaining any ground on the guys I was losing to by a tenth or three consistently. There were glimmers all year, at the Houston NT I was second on Day 1, SWDIV Day 2 I was 2nd again. It didn't dawn on my until a local event:
Driving hard wasn't fast, and thinking about driving FAST wasn't either. Taking the car deep, and then getting on the throttle wasn't getting the job done. I backed off, slowed my inputs and focused on just driving. Consistently, I dropped the 3 tenths, and the some more.
I disagree with Ray a little - I think you need to have a primer to judge yourself against to gauge improvement. But you need to find someone faster than you that competes regularly. When you catch that person, find someone even faster. Or, get that fast person to co-drive your car with you at an event. Have them ride with you on your runs and vice versa, try to pick up on why they are fast. The largest amount of time available is driver, not car.
I also disagree with James that mods are required - they are absolutely not necessary to go faster, and are sometimes counter-productive to improving your driving technique. The most amount of driver improvement I have incurred was during the times when I didnt touch the car for a long stretch. Yes he is correct you arent going to compete for a national championship with your setup, but thats really not important locally. You can find anyone in any class that runs similar times to you and compare yourself against from event to event.
Well i do talk to other drivers who do better then I by 1 sec or 1.5 seconds. I ask where and what lines they take then i compare their know how with mine and see what i did wrong and what i did right.
Do any of you see a lot of G35s running autoX. I know at the track my car can hold its own... in autoX its just way to heavy and it shows.
__________________
-KIRILL-
Still Single and employed but hate my job! Nothing has changed.
I disagree with Ray a little - I think you need to have a primer to judge yourself against to gauge improvement. But you need to find someone faster than you that competes regularly. When you catch that person, find someone even faster. Or, get that fast person to co-drive your car with you at an event. Have them ride with you on your runs and vice versa, try to pick up on why they are fast. The largest amount of time available is driver, not car.
I also disagree with James that mods are required - they are absolutely not necessary to go faster, and are sometimes counter-productive to improving your driving technique. The most amount of driver improvement I have incurred was during the times when I didnt touch the car for a long stretch. Yes he is correct you arent going to compete for a national championship with your setup, but thats really not important locally. You can find anyone in any class that runs similar times to you and compare yourself against from event to event.
I actually agree with you so I'll clarify my post. I meant that all as a starting point. I was just trying to steer him away from intially comparing himself to other drivers as a primary means of measurement. We all, or in my case, use to (I don't compete anymore) compare our times with other people, but there's a time when that becomes more acceptable and necessary. I believe that time comes after you've spent a decent amount of time on yourself (which is what my initial post was mainly about). Sorry for the confusion.
The last time I was at an autocross I saw way more Z's than G35's but maybe things have changed(?). For some reason I just wouldn't picture anyone running one.
I don't do autox any more, but I'd have to recommend the Evolution class. Like Ray said, I improved my times 3-4 seconds over the course of the day and learned how to improve times by being less busy in the turns. Smoother = faster.
At the end of the day, I was faster in my car than my instructor was (only by 0.2, but still! ).
The most important lessons I took away from the school:
1) Walk the course, at each turn look back and figure out how to setup so you're where you want to be for the next turn.
2) Unwind the wheel! I was pretty sloppy about that and it caused a lot of work for myself later.
3) Look ahead, it makes #2 easier to do.
4) Brake later. Apparently I wasn't hitting it hard enough or late enough. It was a real eye opening experience when my instructor drove. White knuckles! You can also scrub off speed without touching the brakes to stay in a certain rpm range.
You're there to beat yourself, not necessarily anyone else.
Kirill I really dont see many G35's auto-xing. My roommate ran his sedan a handful of times, but he never got into it that much. I think the Coupe can be a viable 2nd Tier F-Stock car, but with your mods, you cant run in Stock - and the Street-Prepared rules are for pretty aggressive builds. If you had high flow cats instead of the delete you could run STX or STU if you wanted wider than 245 tires and it would be alot more appropriate for your prep level. Although even these classes can get a little crazy at the national level mod-wise.
All that said - you should be able to get into the top 1/4 of your region's PAX and/or overall Raw time pretty much regardless of car and prep level. Until you get to that point, I wouldnt worry about the car you are in that much.
thanks all. i will deff have to do race school next year to get beter. After today i know i need to. I suck at slalom. kept messing up on the speed or letting of when i shouldnt have.
next npm... we need an autoX event.
__________________
-KIRILL-
Still Single and employed but hate my job! Nothing has changed.
Best slalom technique = maintain a constant speed, look 2-3 cones ahead and pass as close to the "back" side of each cone as possible. Turn in earlier than you think.
Best slalom technique = maintain a constant speed, look 2-3 cones ahead and pass as close to the "back" side of each cone as possible. Turn in earlier than you think.
It works.
Yes turning earlier... is my problem. I keep thinking i'm going to hit it. Even one of the professional drivers that was at autoX this past weekend told me the same thing. Slalom is my biggest weaknerss.
Another question..... How do you sit in your car during autoX. I was told to sit as close to the steering wheel as possible. Was put in the position how the instructor suggested, but it feels completly uncomfortbale and i have no freedom to move my arms aorund. Is this normal?
__________________
-KIRILL-
Still Single and employed but hate my job! Nothing has changed.
Close is good but not if it isn't comfortable and limits your movement. Just find your comfort zone that also allows you to be snug in the seat without your fatass sliding around.
Personally, (although I haven't autox'ed in few years), is just to simply move the seat up 3 clicks. This allowed my body to be snug and minimized all movements from the waist down.
at some point you reach a plateau, (it seems like it was ~2 year mark I had one) and you don't think you are learning anything new, and you don't think you are going faster. At that point you really just gotta keep showing up, working to find ways to improve, and talking to other guys that are faster. Sometime later it will click and you'll drop a chunk of time again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joon525
That is a big assumption. Pony up the money and go to an Evolution driving school. Once there they'll put you through a course in your own car, then you sit shotgun while a more seasoned "pro" goes at it. At the end they show you their time vs. yours and I guarantee you that you will be amazed. The skills you have that you once thought to be on a moderate level will look like utter garbage once you see what the instructor pulled timewise. Then, they teach you how to better yourself to try to get closer to their times.
At the end of the day you're probably not going to beat them but I bet you drop your time by about 3 or 4 seconds (the average from what I saw when I was there).
Quote:
Originally Posted by pter
You're there to beat yourself, not necessarily anyone else.
All quoted for truth. I can tell you from experience. I have had several platuaes. Having an instructor ride with you or watching them drive your car can give a "light bulb moment" that gets you over the hump. Evo school is a big example of that you will have several light bulb moments if you take the course.
A fellow competitor turned me on to the point of view in pter's quote. There is an Impreza driver who competes in my class and was always beating me by 2-3 seconds. We have been autocrossing similar amounts of time and have similar mods. I would get frustrated that I could not catch him. But you can not think about things like that while you are autocrossing. You have to focus on learning and improving each run. You will not get faster by trying to will yourself to get faster so you can beat that guy in the Evo. But you will get faster if after every run you indentify two or three things you need to do differently to improve you time. Then the next time go out and do them. It's a good feeling when you "hit your marks" and you will enjoy the events more. And your times will drop. I can get within a second of the Impreza drive if I focus on my own driving.
If your slolaming technique needs work Evo school will definitly help. But what Zack described is exactly what you need to do. Turn in really early and run over the base of the cones with the back wheel. If you are not hitting cones while learining slolaming technique then you are not getting close enough. Another thing that helped me out a lot is the looking ahead thing. My problem was I was not focused on positioning the car for the first slolam cone. I was "suprised" b/c I was not looking ahead enough. The concept of looking ahead is more planning ahead then just looking. So when I entered a slolam and I was already "late" on the first cone I was late on all the others b/c there is not really any time to "catch up" in a slolam (unless there is a lot of space between the cones). But if I hit the first one correctly, all the others fell into place. Hitting the first one corectly came from looking and planning ahead.
__________________ Paul
2009 Mazdaspeed3 | 1995 Miata | 1999 Crystal Blue Base - bought 6/13/02, sold 3/11/09
Yes turning earlier... is my problem. I keep thinking i'm going to hit it. Even one of the professional drivers that was at autoX this past weekend told me the same thing. Slalom is my biggest weaknerss.
Another question..... How do you sit in your car during autoX. I was told to sit as close to the steering wheel as possible. Was put in the position how the instructor suggested, but it feels completly uncomfortbale and i have no freedom to move my arms aorund. Is this normal?
Turn earlier. You won't hit the cones. Somewhere I have a picture of my old Prelude where the attitude of the car and steering angle of the front wheels looked like there was no possible way I was going to miss the cone. But I did...
I sit as upright as possible, but only far enough away that I can drape my wrists over the top of the steering wheel fully. Another way to check, is slide your hands around the steering wheel until your arms touch. If you can do that, without locking your elbows, then your seating position is fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulyg
My problem was I was not focused on positioning the car for the first slolam cone. I was "suprised" b/c I was not looking ahead enough. The concept of looking ahead is more planning ahead then just looking. So when I entered a slolam and I was already "late" on the first cone I was late on all the others b/c there is not really any time to "catch up" in a slolam (unless there is a lot of space between the cones). But if I hit the first one correctly, all the others fell into place. Hitting the first one corectly came from looking and planning ahead.
I was and am guilty of "shooting the gap" on the entrance to any slalom, where I'd just get the car between the 1st and second slalom cones at speed and then be screwed for the 2nd cone, I'd be late from there out, off the cones, and trying to play catch up by sawing at the wheel. In the miata, sometimes that works, in anything heavy: you get that momentum going back and forth and you are screwed.
Must must must set up a slalom at the entrance cone, no matter what angle the entrance of the slalom actually is to the slalom itself.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques,Mar 8 2006, 12:15 PM
Damn you guys and your Miatas!
2007 FP... 6fth; 2008: just tryin not to be DFL
Last edited by mtbprelude; 09-18-2006 at 12:33 PM.
thanks guys. i will implement everything that i read so far and see if i can get better.
Looking ahead i can only do on some parts of the course but not when it comes to slalom or clearing the clock at the end. usually on sweeping turn i am ok. but then i find myself looking at the gate in front of me.
__________________
-KIRILL-
Still Single and employed but hate my job! Nothing has changed.
Use PAX index to compare yourself to other drivers. You don't need other G35's in your class to get a comparision. If you want a little better way to compare you can find a top PAX driver that has a similar car to your (AS Corv or S2k maybe, but at least RWD that has power) and compare your times to their's. This will take out some of the course dependancy, although there isn't going to be much. Most of the top drivers are consistently at or near the top, that is who you want to compare yourself to, not some guy who is winning your class but it's near the top on PAX.
In your case I would say NOT to spend money on parts, etc. trying to make the car faster. You are better off working on the driver and getting to know how the car reacts, if you are changing the car you can't do that.
Quote:
Another question..... How do you sit in your car during autoX. I was told to sit as close to the steering wheel as possible. Was put in the position how the instructor suggested, but it feels completly uncomfortbale and i have no freedom to move my arms aorund. Is this normal?
For your upper body, you need to be able to move your arms, that means that you can't have them stretch out to the limit. The way I use to confirm my seat location is to keep my shoulders back and extend my arms straight out over the steering wheel, at that point my wrists (where your watch would be) should be the part touching the wheel. That gives my arms room to move around and still be able to turn the wheel 180° without moving my hands on the wheel.
For your lower body.... Your legs need to be able to push the pedal all of the way down, and do any type of heel-toe manuvers you need to do. You should really figure out this posistion on the street.
Generally, you will be sitting more erect than you would be during normal driving.
The AutoGuide.com network consists of the largest network of enthusiast-owned enthusiast-operated automotive communities.
AutoGuide.com provides the latest car reviews, auto show coverage, new car prices, and automotive news. The AutoGuide network operates more than 100 automotive forums where our users consult peers for shopping information and advice, and share opinions as a community.
Nothing has changed.
).
kept messing up on the speed or letting of when i shouldnt have.
Linear Mode
