The S & Si tranny in 88 supposedly have diffrent numbers. In 89, the S & Si tranny shared the same numbers. I have the 89 book, and someone told me about the 88 trannies having diffrent numbers long ago...
In 90/91, the ratios changed again. They became abit more aggressive. Again, I don't have the numbers with me...I will have to find somebody with a Helms for the 90 & 91s...
Not sure about the B20B/Z at all...
David
Quote:
Originally posted by marcucci Does anyone know what the gear ratios are in the S, Si, and B21 trannies? All the same? Know if JDM boxes have different ratios?
Anyone know if there are similarities on the internals with other B series motors? If the B16 and B18 share any internals with the 3g? B20B/Z?
I have a B20A5 tranny that I can play with (trashed), if anyone has any other B series boxes, I'd like to talk.
Originally posted by redliner
In 90/91, the ratios changed again. They became abit more aggressive.
Does that mean they're closer together down low, & I lose top speed?
__________________
91 Prelude Si 5-Spd
NGK Spark Plug Wires
B21A1 129K
cobalt blue pearl w/ gold pinstripes
H&R Sports on Tokico HPs w/ C kits on front
cleared rear turns /red LED bulbs
Matrix Diamond Cut H4 headlights
They were tighter down low, but you really didn't lose any top speed at all. If anything, it accelerated to maximum speed much quicker...*my* 3g Prelude is drag limited, not gear limited. aka, I've spun 5th gear on an icy road before, and the speedo maxed out at 135mph (assuming it was 100% accurate). However, all mags have said that the max for a 3g Prelude is about 128mph...
Careful about the tranny...the VSS are totally diffrent; the 88-89 is cable driven, while the VSS on 90/91 is electronic. It has been speculated that the VSS are not interchangable...otherwise, I would've swapped to a 91 box along time ago!
Really?! I didn't know that. Well, I need the gears more than anything else, so... in my experience, the VSSs should swap, since the 4g/5g ones do (5g does not have the p/s regulator/lines). I guess I will find out.
Alas, I did not get that '90. I found a guy from Ebay that had one w/40k miles on it for $200 shipped. Now I need to sell some parts to pay for it!
Speaking of which, I have a gauge cluster from a 3g that I need to get rid of- 89 Si w/40k miles, auto. Excellent condition. $40 and it's yours.
Hehe. That's cool. You know where I am if you need help...
No thanks on the gauge It's pretty trick to wind out your car past an indicated 8K RPM Redline
Its so inaccurate, that a 2-3 shift at redline places the needle right back into redline :P
[QUOTE]Originally posted by marcucci Really?! I didn't know that. Well, I need the gears more than anything else, so... in my experience, the VSSs should swap, since the 4g/5g ones do (5g does not have the p/s regulator/lines). I guess I will find out.
Alas, I did not get that '90. I found a guy from Ebay that had one w/40k miles on it for $200 shipped. Now I need to sell some parts to pay for it!
Speaking of which, I have a gauge cluster from a 3g that I need to get rid of- 89 Si w/40k miles, auto. Excellent condition. $40 and it's yours. [/QUOTE
Got this from the 90 Helms manual (same for B21A and B20A5)
Primary final reduction 1.000
1st 3.307
2nd 1.809
3rd 1.289
4th 0.964
5th 0.812
Rev. 3.000
Final reduction 4.266
I did some reasearch on the p/ns of tranny parts, and I can tell you a few things:
- The 88-89 Prelude shares NOTHING internally with other B series trannies. In fact, it shares NOTHING with any other Honda!
- The 88-89 are the same except for 1st gear on the '89.
So that means the 88-89 are almost identical, and the 90-91 are different. Are you ready for the kicker?
- 90-91 are identical across all models internally.
- THE 90 AND 91 ACCORD (all models) SHARE the MAINSHAFT, REVERSE, 1st, and 2nd GEARS! That's for all 90-91 Accord models!
- THE 90-93 ACCORD (all models) SHARE THE DIFFERENTIAL! The 91 Accord EX and LX share the final drive as well!
What this means? The 90-93 Accords with F series engines, as well as POSSIBLY newer ones and the newer Prelude, SHOULD be able to swap gearsets, differentials, countershafts and final drives. It would take an actual fitment test, but I'm willing to bet they would work.
So, does Quaife have a diff for the 90-93 F22 Accord? If so, we may have a weiner.
One troubling part... will the 90-91 tranny bolt to the 88-89? I have a '90 on the way, so I should be able to answer that question before too long...
Man, that's awesome. Armed with that information, the question, is, why the huge switchover between 88/89 & 90/91? Which leads to the question...why hasn't anyone with an 88/89 ever tried out a 90/91 transmission? I've always wanted to try, but precedential evidence has led me to believe that the 2 trannies are incompatiable. However, I still find that hard to believe. Considering that they are both B20As, the basic pattern should fit...
Quote:
Originally posted by marcucci Alert: Assload of information!
I did some reasearch on the p/ns of tranny parts, and I can tell you a few things:
- The 88-89 Prelude shares NOTHING internally with other B series trannies. In fact, it shares NOTHING with any other Honda!
- The 88-89 are the same except for 1st gear on the '89.
So that means the 88-89 are almost identical, and the 90-91 are different. Are you ready for the kicker?
- 90-91 are identical across all models internally.
- THE 90 AND 91 ACCORD (all models) SHARE the MAINSHAFT, REVERSE, 1st, and 2nd GEARS! That's for all 90-91 Accord models!
- THE 90-93 ACCORD (all models) SHARE THE DIFFERENTIAL! The 91 Accord EX and LX share the final drive as well!
What this means? The 90-93 Accords with F series engines, as well as POSSIBLY newer ones and the newer Prelude, SHOULD be able to swap gearsets, differentials, countershafts and final drives. It would take an actual fitment test, but I'm willing to bet they would work.
So, does Quaife have a diff for the 90-93 F22 Accord? If so, we may have a weiner.
One troubling part... will the 90-91 tranny bolt to the 88-89? I have a '90 on the way, so I should be able to answer that question before too long...
Well, I forgot to mention that the clutch and tranny housings are different, so the pattern may be different. I doubt it, but Honda has done stranger things. For instance, in '00 or '01 (I forget), Honda change the crank bearings on the H22. Pretty radically, since they are nowhere near the same diameter...
We'll see soon enough. The tranny left PA via FedEx ground yesterday.
Yep. In 89/90, you can't change clutches/flywheels. I helped online with a few tranny swaps, and a fellow had accidently purchased the 90/91 clutches...wouldn't swap over. But the difference in size is pretty minor from what he told me. I wonder if there's a difference with the spline count?
Spline count should be the same. I can't think of why they would have changed it.
Sure enough, the parts database calls out something like 5 revs of the disc, all of which are only good for the 88-89. PP has 2 revs for 88 and a different one for 89.
Christ, '90 has like 15 revs on the disc which is shared with the F and H series Prelude up to '93. PP was specific to the 90-91.
My guess is that the '90-91 was a transitionary year where they were cross-pollenating the B series with the F and H. I think as they spun up the F and H series motors, they started borrowing parts from the bin...
Well, we should find out shortly, since the '90 tranny should be here soon.
Well, got the tranny in from a '90 Si. The tranny DOES bolt up and the spline IS the same. The input section of the mainshaft, though, is larger in diameter where the pilot bearing is. This "upgrade" would necessitate moving to the newer flywheel, which I don't see why it wouldn't fit (unless Honda planned specifically NOT for there to be an upgrade path!).
The trannies are almost identical externally. The newer one is "finned" a little more, but has all the same mounting points, brackets, and bolt holes.
Honda lists the same differential p/n (41310-PX5-E41) for both the '90-91 Prelude and the '90-91 Accord. Guess what? Quaife has an application for the 90-97 Accord and 92+ Prelude- 60.309.170. I've contacted them, but I don't see why this wouldn't work. I would further think that it would work as far back as 88-89, but since the trannies are different...
If Honda uses the same diff in the Accord and Prelude... there is no reason the Quaife shouldn't work also. Hooray!!!
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It's pretty trick to wind out your car past an indicated 8K RPM Redline 
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