whp? - Honda Prelude Forum

darkstar67 · 03-16-2009, 10:33 AM

I was wondering, my h23 is rated at 160hp (thats beasty as hell i know lol...right...) is that whp or from the motor? well my dad was making fun of me cause he thinks my car is pushing about 130 to the wheels and his m3 dynoed 270 and he said he had 2x the power i had (its sad i know

) is this right?

MLBZ521 · 03-16-2009, 10:41 AM

It's rated at the Flywheel, so yea, sorry to say, he's pretty close to being right.

petern101 · 03-16-2009, 10:49 AM

Go look in the NA dyno stickie. There are some stock h23 dyno graphs in there.

But yeah, it's going to be in the realm of ~130ish.

You should tell your dad a 30k pontiac GT has more whp than his M3

Also doesn't require a valve adjustment every 12k miles or "special" oil 5w-60 because Castrol made a deal with BMW. I love the s54 but comparing it to a h23 / h22 is kind of childish.

darkstar67 · 03-16-2009, 05:32 PM

naw he was just messing with me. pontiac gt? g8? its an e36 coupe. i used to get to drive it in between working on the lude... Id rather much have it than the lude but its cool. it really doesnt need valve adjustment, its the s52. and id bet a million dollars on it that it would smoke a g8 (power to weight and gearing) and that it would out handle that pontiac any day of the year. and my dads car was 15,000 4 years ago, so thats another 15000 for upgrades. I know of a lot of Dinan goodies id slap on it for that to reach at least 100 more hp than the g8.

edit- oh and the e36 uses BMW Synthetic 5W-30 (which is castrol). look it up.

petern101 · 03-16-2009, 08:50 PM

^is he turbocharged or something?

I have an s52 with a baseline dyno, it's no where near 270 whp. Most s52's need some serious NA mods to get to 270 whp. I just assumed if he is dynoing at 270whp he had a s54 (which does require valve adjustments and 5w60 oil, go ahead, look it up)

Unless you're dad's s52 is heavily modded, no it will not beat a g8 gt. Sorry, you can't overcome pure hp. Stock for stock, it's faster around the ring too

Also the M3 was ~50k new, it's hard to compare pricing right now to something new. It's all manipulating of the stats.

darkstar67 · 03-16-2009, 09:30 PM

my dads car isnt heavily modded, its stock with a dinan chiped ecu and has a 75 shot of nitrous. 98 e36 m3 3.2l. you want pics? the e46 requires 10w60 which is 14 dollars a liter from bmw, not the e36, it REQUIRES 10w30 synthetic. call my dads ASE certified mechanic that works for BMW of brentwood. pm me for the #. it doesnt require 12000 mile valve adj's. bavarian motor works would not make such a motor that required **** like that. and if you had an e36 you wouldnt have an m-coupe as your sig pic. stop talking about stuff you dont know about. there is also no way that a car 4000 pound car that pulls .88 g's would beat the 3000 pound m3 with lateral g's of 1 g. look it up. The History of the BMW M3 Part 2 - E36 M3

darkstar67 · 03-16-2009, 10:00 PM

this is what we had to work with when we first got it. and the second one is now, after 1/2 a year of work and 10000 dollars in parts.http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/5184/m3turbo.jpg
http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/1851/m3paint.jpg

rayslude · 03-17-2009, 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkstar67

this is what we had to work with when we first got it. and the second one is now, after 1/2 a year of work and 10000 dollars in parts.

tell me you're kidding.

Tee-Dot · 03-17-2009, 04:46 AM

Nice M3.

What kind of Tag fits with that piece of ****??

95greenlude · 03-17-2009, 07:42 AM

my pretty much stock H23 put down 130 whp / 140 wtq

petern101 · 03-17-2009, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkstar67

my dads car isnt heavily modded, its stock with a dinan chiped ecu and has a 75 shot of nitrous. 98 e36 m3 3.2l. you want pics? the e46 requires 10w60 which is 14 dollars a liter from bmw, not the e36, it REQUIRES 10w30 synthetic. call my dads ASE certified mechanic that works for BMW of brentwood. pm me for the #.

Quote:

Originally Posted by petern101

I just assumed if he is dynoing at 270whp he had a s54 (which does require valve adjustments and 5w60 oil, go ahead, look it up)

Umm did you not read my post? I don't edit my stuff so yeah, I got the exact oil wrong but I ASSUMED your dad had a s54 which would make everything I told you correct. If he has a s52, then no, none of that applies. Oh and just fyi, ASE means nothing. You've read numerious horror stories from any dealership and all those guys are ASE certified.

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkstar67

it doesnt require 12000 mile valve adj's. bavarian motor works would not make such a motor that required **** like that. and if you had an e36 you wouldnt have an m-coupe as your sig pic. stop talking about stuff you dont know about. there is also no way that a car 4000 pound car that pulls .88 g's would beat the 3000 pound m3 with lateral g's of 1 g. look it up. The History of the BMW M3 Part 2 - E36 M3

Actually the s54 does require valve adjustments. Again, I was under the assumption your dad's m3 was an e46.

Here is the link S54 valve adjust update - bimmerfest - BMW Forums

So are you going to retract your statement that BMW would make a motor that required that?

Wow you really want me to pwn you today huh? The z3 m coupe IS an E36. Well a varient, the official chassis code is e36/8 which means its the 8th iteration of the e36 chassis. Trust me, I own one, I would know. You just drive one from time to time.

SUPERCARS.NET - Community Forums

the e36 does it in over 8:19. The new G8 GT does it in 8:19. It's not even fair since that e36 tested wasn't a US stock one.

petern101 · 03-17-2009, 12:44 PM

Also, lateral G's is just a number just as much as 0-60 times, hp to weight, etc. Yes it's some quantitative way to "rate" something but it's not the end all.

I wouldn't use it as a reference for real-world situations.

darkstar67 · 03-17-2009, 01:06 PM

I told you that it was an e36 m3 S52.
The e46 has to be set every 25000 miles. (look on the link THAT YOU sent)
I dont think that you pwn anything on me.
and if i really wanted to pwn your coupes ass, id spend a day putting a turbo on the m and taking the hood off. AND I WOULD STILL OUT HANDLE A PEICE OF **** PONTIAC.

darkstar67 · 03-17-2009, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petern101

Also, lateral G's is just a number just as much as 0-60 times, hp to weight, etc. Yes it's some quantitative way to "rate" something but it's not the end all.

I wouldn't use it as a reference for real-world situations.

well when the difference is that bad ( .88 vs 1.00 ) I would deffinitely use it for real world situations. because in a real world situation, which one would you drive?

lateral g matters. 0-60 matters, p2w ratio matters... it all matters, you just dont want to be wrong.

petern101 · 03-17-2009, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkstar67

I told you that it was an e36 m3 S52.
The e46 has to be set every 25000 miles. (look on the link THAT YOU sent)
I dont think that you pwn anything on me.
and if i really wanted to pwn your coupes ass, id spend a day putting a turbo on the m and taking the hood off. AND I WOULD STILL OUT HANDLE A PEICE OF **** PONTIAC.

Yes you said it after I assumed your dad had a s54.

Actually the link states when his next valve adjustment was to be projected by his little "green leds". You should know about that, it shows up every time you turn on the car.

You also said BMW wouldn't make an engine like that, apparently they do. (sorry get off their balls). You also said I don't have an e36 (which I do).

Wow, you're so cool because it would take a day to slap a turbo on YOUR DAD'S car to beat me in what, a drag race? Real e-man power right there buddy. I could slap a turbo on my s52 and be about the same too.

You still won't beat a pontiac. You just don't get it do you?

petern101 · 03-17-2009, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkstar67

well when the difference is that bad ( .88 vs 1.00 ) I would deffinitely use it for real world situations. because in a real world situation, which one would you drive?

lateral g matters. 0-60 matters, p2w ratio matters... it all matters, you just dont want to be wrong.

Actually the e36 m3 is rated around .93 to .94 from factory according to R&T.

Quote:

Road and Track tested the 95 M3's specs at 0-60 in 5.4 and 13.9/99.6 and .94 on the skidpad. taken from http://www.live4speed.net/cars/c/che...w-1995-m3.html

lateral G's aren't everything - in fact, by that logic, the MKIV is a better handling car than the e36 M3 b/c it managed 0.98 G's on the Road & Track skid pad back in 1993...and take it from someone who owns one and has driven both - the MKIV Supra is not a better handling car than the e36 M3 STOCK FOR STOCK...so skid pad numbers can be misleading...

besides, its quite easy to get a car around a skid pad once you've adjusted to the car's natural tendencies (understeer/oversteer/road feel/etc.) b/c, in effect, you're just holding a constant turn radius and constant speed on a skid pad. people tend to give too much credit to the "lateral forces" a car can manage in a turn at speed, and not enough credit to a more important factor - the transitions between lateral AND longitudinal forces (i.e. transitioning from a left turn to a right turn, or vice versa, OR transitioning from full throttle to heavy braking, or perhaps some combination of the two).

so i can tell you that, while my Supra generally feels like it grips better (and slides less) in the corners than the few e36 M3's i've driven, it doesn't transition quite as stably/solidly from a left to right turn, or from heavy acceleration to heavy braking as well as the e36 M3. could i fix that? yes, but that would involve some weight reduction and weight re-distribution, and then its no longer an "apples Vs apples" comparison.

I can admit when I'm wrong. (I got the oil number wrong and I was wrong to assume your dad had a s54). You on the other hand just go about like a little immature kid. I proved you factually wrong on many things and you come back with little pissy arguments.

If that were the case and spec's meant everything, then yes, a stupid little pontic G8 GT will beat a M3 on paper. You remind me of those e92 m3 fanboys who made fun of the R35 GTR. They still think the M3 is a faster / better car.

It will never get through to people like you.

Tee-Dot · 03-17-2009, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkstar67

I told you that it was an e36 m3 S52.
The e46 has to be set every 25000 miles. (look on the link THAT YOU sent)
I dont think that you pwn anything on me.
and if i really wanted to pwn your coupes ass, id spend a day putting a turbo on the m and taking the hood off. AND I WOULD STILL OUT HANDLE A PEICE OF **** PONTIAC.

I love you. Please stay here forever!!

darkstar67 · 03-17-2009, 03:18 PM

and you cant admit when you are wrong.
I do it. Ive done it before, even to you.
but, right now im not wrong.
just admit it.
youve wasted so much of your time because of the simple fact that you were wrong and are still wrong and dont want to admit it.
if you think the g8 is better than the e36, trade in the coupe and go buy a g8 and stop whining like a little girl.
ive got to goto work.

Tee-Dot · 03-17-2009, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkstar67

and you cant admit when you are wrong.
I do it. Ive done it before, even to you.
but, right now im not wrong.
just admit it.
youve wasted so much of your time because of the simple fact that you were wrong and are still wrong and dont want to admit it.
if you think the g8 is better than the e36, trade in the coupe and go buy a g8 and stop whining like a little girl.
ive got to goto work.

I really really love you.

While it's true that this forum is now crawling with idiots, I'm sure we've got enough room to squeeze you in.

Please please please stay!!!

MLBZ521 · 03-17-2009, 03:26 PM

I don't think he said the G8 is better than the E36, just that's it's faster.

A Kia could out run my Prelude, it'd be faster, but I wouldn't think it's better.
It's just a faster Kia.