Tranny swap/ conversion - Honda Prelude Forum

kimara3002 · 04-07-2009, 08:58 PM

hey everyone just trying to get a feel of what i can do so if you can help me out... i have a 94 lude (obvious right) it has the H22A1 with the VTEC head.. all stock for the time being .. i know the H series trannys are kinda weak especialy when adding more horse power to the engine as well as they have shorter gears.. i was thinking of trying to convert a B series tranny over since they are stronger and have longer gears. now i was also wondering about the K series trannys but dont they run in reverse compaired to the B and H series trannys??? i really wouldnt mind that extra gear (6th) but is it possible to do? or am i stuck with the usual 5 gears + reverse???? so basically what are my options for a possible tranny conversion?? a B series or maybe even a K series???

89 lude B20A3-dead (junked)
94 lude H22A1 VTEC -daily driver

petern101 · 04-07-2009, 09:53 PM

1. B series aren't that much stronger, they appear stronger because they start off with lower hp engines

2. why would you want longer gears? fuel economy? go get a civic

3. K series will not work at all

Again, there are 400 hp h22's with stock transmissions, I doubt you get that far.

kimara3002 · 04-08-2009, 05:44 AM

im not really looking for better fuel economy at all.. im looking to get more power outta the engine by keeping it in higher rpms longer.. especially if im on the highway and some mustang or various other car pulls up next to me. i figured the k series wouldnt work tho. im actually hoping to have more than 400 hp by the time im done.. with all the stuff im planing on doing its seems to be very feesable. here is what im planning on.. H23 block (more bottom end than h22) h22 heads, skunk 2 valves, springs and titanium retainers, skunk 2 cam gears , unorthadox underpully, various pullys , skunk2 or brian cower cam shafts, port and polish the heads, aem fuel rail with regulator, 800-1000 cc injectors, bigger fuel lines, upraded fuel pump, nology spark plug wires, msd ignition, denso iridium spark plugs,exhaust of course, bore the block out 50 over and sleeve it 50 for stronger cilynder walls, stroker kit bumping the 2.3 up to a 2.7, forged rods and pistons, kinfe edged crank shaft, a decent size turbo at least a t4, nos 150 wet shot kit, moroso oil pan hondata electronics (ecu) and there might be some stuff i left out of the engine part/ area..

petern101 · 04-08-2009, 12:32 PM

Okay, when you actually get all this stuff, then ask this question.

I don't want to sound mean but everyone who starts off modding their cars wants this. I can spout out all the items I always wanted for my 4th gen but how much of it actually materilized?

If you want to do your little street racing then having more power + shorter gears works in your favor.

Rant: I don't understand dropping that much money into a non-collectible car to beat (insert car here). If you actually get all of the parts you listed, you're looking into at least $10k after it's all said and done when an older mustang could throw half of that into their cars and still beat you in a straight line.

MLBZ521 · 04-08-2009, 05:33 PM

Get more power out of the Transmission because of longer gears??

Longer Gears = Higher Top Speed BUT Slower Acceleration.
You're not going to make more power, you're only going to make it sooner or later.....

The H2B Kits, H-Series Block with B-Series Transmission, do not work in Prelude or Accords. They are made/developed for Civic and Integra Chassis.
There is no reason to say the B-Series is stronger than the H-Series Transmission. Why do you think this? Because the B-Series Trans will rev higher? Of course it will, because the B-Series Motor was built for that, where as, the H-Series was not.

Stock for Stock, the K-Series will not work.. But a K-Series Transmission has been swapped on to an F2xC S2000 motor.. So something "kinda close" has been done. I guess..

If you want longer gears, get an Accord Transmission, that'll solve what you consider a problem.

Also, these engines do not have "Heads."

Half of what you're listing is completely negligible. Money could be better spent else where.. Not to mention, quite a few things are completely negating each other.....
Major Example:

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimara3002

here is what im planning on.. H23 block (more bottom end than h22)

bore the block out 50 over and sleeve it 50 for stronger cilynder walls, stroker kit bumping the 2.3 up to a 2.7

You're going to buy an H23 Block because it's "more bottom end than h22" to THEN bore it out and stroke it... COMPLETELY retarded, period. There's no other way to say it.

ALSO, 2.7L?? lulz How long to want this block to last? A race season?
Do you expect to DD that??

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimara3002

especially if im on the highway and some mustang or various other car pulls up next to me.

And that comment makes you sound like a complete tool.

1) There's no need for you to worry about some guy in a Mustang because he "pulls up next to you" on the highway.

2) It's people like this that give import owner/tuners a bad name.

3) You shouldn't be on the street just looking/waiting for a race...

4) I owned a Mustang before my Prelude, so frick you too for thinking your car is better than some other car. Respect gets you much further than your hate.

I've had cars pull up next to me all the time.. I had one of the last year Trans AM, that had to of been Super Charged as I could hear it oh so clear, pull up next to me on the highway the last time I drove my car home.. He came out of no where, flew up beside me and almost into another car.. He was toying with me for a good few miles.. I did nothing but laugh at him and his stupidity.. Why the frick should I care about your Blown Trans AM that's easily making over 400whp, in my little (old) stock H23A1 Prelude..

I laughed in his face and ignored him.

kimara3002 · 04-08-2009, 06:31 PM

sorry for saying heads.. i meant the head..in terms of pull up on the highway i ment come up beside me.. as well im not looking for a race per say i usually do the same thing.. sit back and laugh.. every once in a while ill shift down and pass others but not often..when i said a mustang it was not pertained to that particular car.. mustangs are quick and can be built to be fast hince only a reference to them because of speed so settle down before you get to riled up over the situation.. the stroker kit bumps up the liters a bit but not to much so if the engine is run right and tunned right it shouldnt blow up.. and if it does it will just be one more thing i can work on for fun you know.. next lines are my opinion along with other people i know that work at tuning shops in the area***and yes the h23 block.. the h23 block has more bottom than the h22 block, good for top speed, h22's even tho ppl do put turbos on them really are ment to be an all motor build because of the vtec head and its straight out of the box power but has little bottom, the h23 should be built up and then a turbo added cause it has more bottom end to support the turbo.. ive been told to create what is so called a LSVTEC which i was told was to take the h23 block and the h22 head so it combines the h23bottom for the turbo and the out of the box power of the h22 head... and also out of curiousity what would you do? if you were going to try to get 400+ hp out of a prelude what steps and products would you do? i have my base plan of what i want to do now i need to fine tune them before i start in on my project so if you could please keep your criticism down a bit.. i do not know all and never said i did but it seemed more than half of your post was more useless than anything to me is all im sorry to be rude about it but either you could help me out and id be appreciative about it or you cant help me out in that case please keep somethings to yourself as they do not need to be said.

minilogoguy18 · 04-08-2009, 07:00 PM

The H22 block and the H23 block are nearly identical, the thing that gives it that 0.1L extra displacement is the slightly longer stroke. He's right about the 2.7L, think about it, you're boring it out and at the same time the amount of metal between the cylinder walls and the outside of the block will be so thin that it'll crack after only being driven a short while. The highest you can bump the displacement up without trashing it instantly is 2.49L. You don't even need to buy an H23 block especially if you're gonna bore it out. If you want longer gears while still keeping decent acceleration just get the M2S4 that comes in the Si.

MLBZ521 · 04-08-2009, 07:49 PM

First, I'll say, sorry I'm came off a little harsh... Most "newbies" that say some of the things you did, or well, how you said them (as it sounds like you didn't mean them as I first interpreted) are douches that make import tuners/owners look bad, as I said before..

Second, anyone that has told you to do a LSVTEC on your Prelude with an H-Series Block, do not ask for their advice or opinion again. The LSVTEC is B-Series build/block, it is not an H-Series. The H-Series is completely different than the B-Series.

Further.. I would like to say, yes, 2.7L has been done, and it can be done.. But it is not reliable.. It is not DD'able. It's just to much for the H to handle.
Also Minilogo, the outside of the block doesn't have anything to with the Cylinder Walls.. You'll never get to close where you describing..

Now, I want to ask you this: What do you mean by "the h23 block has more bottom than the h22 block?" Why do you think this?
Do you mean it has more Torque, it has more displacement, etc..?

As Minilogo said, the H22 and H23 blocks are pretty much identical. The major differences are the Crank, Rods, and Pistons.
So what I'm trying to say is, what you're thinking, makes absolutely no sense..

There is no reason to get the H23 Block over the H22 Block. Bores are the same, so you're not getting any benefit here, and you're boring it anyways.. The H23 has a longer stroke, which is the Crank, so when you stroke it, get a larger crank, you just negated the benefits of the H23 Block.
Think about it, you're saying your going to change out the exact parts that set the H23 apart from the H22. Which....you can do the same stuff in the H22 block, and it'll be the exact same thing.

H22's aren't just meant for All Motor. It'll be easier to make more Peak Power because of VTEC, but the H23 can make power also if the money was spent. An H/F Hybrid, using only OEM Parts, has made 200whp and 183wtq, that's more WHP & WTQ than a bolt on H22.

H22's have made over 300whp Naturally Aspirated, but much more than that, I haven't seen, so I dunno how much more can be pulled out. I personally have a block capable of hitting those numbers..

Making 400whp+++ in the H-Series Boosted is simple and is done often.

The only reason the H23 would "seem" more boost friendly compared to the H22, is because in stock form, the H23 has a lower compression ratio compared to the H22..

kimara3002 · 04-08-2009, 08:23 PM

apology accepted.. ill admit im use to it as i always have a clear thought of what i write but allways seems to come out different when i write it and usually gives to much leway for misinterpretation ...from what i was told about bottom on the h23 block he may have been referring to the compression ratio. perhaps that is what they ment or perhaps not i do not know thats just what i was told.. the guy that told me about the lsvtec works at a tuning shop bout 50 miles from me and i dont know him other than what i have talked to him over the phone and in e-mails to try to get a set up of what i want to do with the prelude. as for boreing out the motor 50 over i was going to sleeve it 50 as well and keep the stock piston bore size i dont know if that part may have been overlooked and thought of as just boreing it out and putting in bigger pistons? that was also not my intent to say. i saw the stroker kit for the h22 and it increases the liters to 2.6.. all it is basically is a spacer between the block and head to clarify it, ill need forged rods of course to get the right size etc. and i was also going to do forged pistons, i want to build the motor up to the point were i can put a turbo and nos kit on without to much worry of any damage..maybe theres another kind of stroker kit out there your talking about that i dont know of? or maybe your thinking of what this is and im misunderstanding? what is DD mean the only thing i know is designated drunk.lol... no but i really am trying to figure that out..

MLBZ521 · 04-09-2009, 12:05 AM

Ah, well, this is the internet (where noobs, tools, and internet gangsters are the majority, lol) and it is text, so it can be interpreted in a number of ways, or misinterpreted.. Heh

I'd be leery of that shop/guy then if he thinks LSVTEC has to do with the H-Series. Using an H23A1 Short Block with a H22 Cylinder Head is normally referred to as a "H23 VTEC" Hybrid.. Though this is overly loosely used, considering there is an actual H23A VTEC, so people can get confused on what others are talking about sometimes..

How are you going to bore and sleeve the block, but keep the same piston size?? That doesn't made since... If you bore it you have to use a bigger piston...
Also, but "50" do you mean ".5in" or ".5mm?"

If you don't know, you can not run a forged piston in the stock H-Series Block because of the sleeves.

A spacer between the Block and Cylinder Head?!? Where did you see this?? Link please?? I've never heard of that..
Stroker "Kits" are normally Cranks with a larger Stroke, this is all I've seen..

"DD" is "Daily Drivable."

kimara3002 · 04-09-2009, 12:02 PM

ill take your advice and not talk to that guy or to stay away from him at least.. i was going to bore it out 50 over (not sure what kind of measurement that is but i know 60 is uaually the max i think.) but i was going to also sleave it.. by putting in forged sleeves to bring it back down to stock bore size87-89mm or something like that??) so im just removing (boreing) out the old walls + more and then sleeving it with stronger metal that can withstand more pressure and torment.. the stroker kit i found in a magazine.. which i lent to a friend who still hasnt returned it

.. i will look for ir online if i can and provide a link if i find it but its basically a block that sits on top of your original block and the the head goes on to that.. id need to have custom rods made for it though.. i just got my answer to the mesurment of boring.. its 50 thousandths of an inch

MLBZ521 · 04-09-2009, 02:26 PM

Since these motors are built using Metric Measurements, using standard units doesn't work very well.. And confuses me.. :P lol

Stock bore on the H22 and H23 is 87mm. Max I've seen an H22 bored is 90mm.

I see what you're saying now, you're just saying more than you need too.. All you have to say is you sleeving the block and keeping the stock bore. You're not actually boring the block bigger. Solves that confusion..

Please, find out more on that Stroker Kit and post here.. I've never ever heard of anything like that.. Sounds crazy.. Dunno if I'd trust it.. I've heard on spacers on Intake Manifolds, but not between the block and cylinder head. :S

Who do you plan on having do this work??

G_Loc · 04-09-2009, 03:40 PM

We should poll all the ****s who start threads like this after a year and see how far they actually get

kimara3002 · 04-09-2009, 05:02 PM

im going to be doing most of the work myself.. i majored as a mechanic and in autobody as well so i have 2 degrees there, and i went back to school for custom fab. .. there is one shop i know i can trust but thats down in westerville ohio .. bout 2 hours away but ill proly take the block down there and get the engine sleeved and the head ported and polished but other than that ill proly be doing the rest

MLBZ521 · 04-10-2009, 01:07 PM

kk..

Well, make sure whatever shop you take your block too has done plenty of work on the H-Series.. Just because they work on other Honda's with B-Series doesn't mean they can do the H.. H-Blocks are very different and lots of people have had trouble because shops didn't have experience with the block.

natemanas · 04-13-2009, 09:11 PM

Finally, a thread where people acted like adults!
I was not aware that the H2B setup wasn't compatible to the prelude...

petern101 · 04-13-2009, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by natemanas

Finally, a thread where people acted like adults!
I was not aware that the H2B setup wasn't compatible to the prelude...

Haha yeah.

If you sit an think about it, the name says it all.

natemanas · 04-14-2009, 05:43 AM

Yeah, I was thinking about it last night.. too bad too