I'm very sorry about all of the brake questions i've had lately... they're just so bad that i'm afraid to even drive my car.
Anyway, I've gotten brake pads and rotors now.... And i priced out some places to get them changed. Parts included, the cheapest i found JUST FOR FRONT is $275. I still find that outside of my price range. My question is, would it be cheaper, or the same price to buy the tools to do this myself (and in the future.)
So, i've been searching all night for a writeup. I looked thoroughly through my HELMS but it doesn't really have a "rotor replacement" topic... just the Runout measurements. I'm under the impression that i may need some air tools for this job... I've done brake pads before, just never the rotor's themselves. Thanks alot in advance and i appreciate all the support from you guys on this topic!!!
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Down-graded from Prelude VTEC, to Civic EX...
Two years later, traded Civic straight up for a 94 Prelude...
Just can't stay away!
~34 bux each rotor and pads for like 50 bux. i dunno where you are getting your numbers. lets say it cost me like 350ish for a complete swap over with new calipers/pads/rotors/brake fluid.
next is the writeup for brake install.
1. jack up the car
2. remove wheels
3. use breaker bar / socket set to remove the two pins that hold the caliper. then set the caliper somewhere (or balance it on another jack)
4. then there are two other bolts that hold the bracket that holds the caliper........remove those
5. unscrew the rotor (i just used a regular screwdriver)
6. the rotor falls right off
7. put new rotor back on and follow steps backwards, remember to push back the piston and grease the sliding pins. airtools makes it faster but def. not needed.
the helms does say how to remove the caliper (brake section page 9) and you just have two extra screws to remove. the blowout diagram shows you.
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"I am a ricer because I have Z3 fenders"
^yeah thats the one you are supposed to use. i didn't have too much of a problem getting mine out but you really don't have to put the screws back on to the new rotor
i didn't
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"I am a ricer because I have Z3 fenders"
having some trouble getting the rotor screws out.... i dont want to strip them... any suggestions? i really dont have the time to order this part you guys have talked about. i tried a socket wrench with a phillips head and a flat head on it... the flat head broke lol... and i just dont wanna strip the bolt. let me know because im in the garage now trying to get them off!
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Down-graded from Prelude VTEC, to Civic EX...
Two years later, traded Civic straight up for a 94 Prelude...
Just can't stay away!
having some trouble getting the rotor screws out.... i dont want to strip them... any suggestions? i really dont have the time to order this part you guys have talked about. i tried a socket wrench with a phillips head and a flat head on it... the flat head broke lol... and i just dont wanna strip the bolt. let me know because im in the garage now trying to get them off!
take a philips put it on the screw and take a hammer and slightly tap it in for it to bite on it a little more. Worked wonders for me. Push comes to shove you can just drill and use a screw extractor. and wow, if you broke the flat head, you are using some weak ass screw drivers lol. -_-
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-Steven
Quote:
Originally Posted by vile10
not to offend anyone but usually when you hear a loud noise but never see the car for a long while, that's probably a civic
ya... see i've had two nice craftsman sets stolen from me recently, so i bought a crap $20 tool set from walmart. you bet your ass i'll be back there tomorrow returning it!
Thanks for the advice, although i called it a night due to the HEAT. It's so un-godly hot here in virginia (as i've heard it is also hot throughout the country)... I just couldnt handle it anymore. I'll give it another crack this weekend once the rotors get here. Thanks again!
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Down-graded from Prelude VTEC, to Civic EX...
Two years later, traded Civic straight up for a 94 Prelude...
Just can't stay away!
some of you are saying you don't put those screws back in... they gotta be there for something! Or is it the lugnuts and caliper that do the job on holding them in?
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Down-graded from Prelude VTEC, to Civic EX...
Two years later, traded Civic straight up for a 94 Prelude...
Just can't stay away!
You'll just feel brake shudder if you don't have them in. I had them off for a while but it just got annoying so i tossed them back on.
umm, no you won't. The lugnuts and the wheel hold the rotor on and there's no place it can move. I drilled out my rotor screws and didn't replace them and they're fine.
The purpose of those screws, as far as I can tell, is just to hold the rotor on when you're putting the caliper back on. You can be sure that two 6x1 philips head screws aren't playing any supportive role under braking! If you had rotor shudder, you must have had some other problem.
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"The only thing that needs adjusting is the nut behind the wheel."
umm, no you won't. The lugnuts and the wheel hold the rotor on and there's no place it can move. I drilled out my rotor screws and didn't replace them and they're fine.
The purpose of those screws, as far as I can tell, is just to hold the rotor on when you're putting the caliper back on. You can be sure that two 6x1 philips head screws aren't playing any supportive role under braking! If you had rotor shudder, you must have had some other problem.
don't be so quick to make my reply so dismissive. If you have the 2 philips screws out you can even see for yourself there is some free play of the rotor of about half a cm or so, something that is most definitely noticeable under braking. Jei at blacktrax pointed this out to me as he had brake shudder on his old 4th gen as a result of these 2 screws missing and sure enough putting them on made a difference.
Just picture it yourself... You say those 2 screws are there for support of the rotor when the caliper is off. Are you trying to tell me that's ALL they are for lol? Your rotor is already gonna be sitting on the 4 lugnuts before you can put the caliper back on so the purpose that you're trying to state the 2 philips heads are for, for holding the rotor on when putting the caliper back on, is irrelevant. Picture the caliper off and the 2 philips head off. Your rotor is basically just sitting on the 4 bolts for your lugnuts. Last time I checked, the rotors don't "squeeze" perfectly on the 4 bolts for a snug tight fit. There is obviously gonna be some small freeplay which the 2 philips head eliminates.
So either you've had them off for too long to notice what it feels like WITH them on or you just have thick skin under your foot but again, don't take my word for it. Take off your wheels and you'll see for yourself.
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-Steven
Quote:
Originally Posted by vile10
not to offend anyone but usually when you hear a loud noise but never see the car for a long while, that's probably a civic
Just picture it yourself... You say those 2 screws are there for support of the rotor when the caliper is off. Are you trying to tell me that's ALL they are for lol? Your rotor is already gonna be sitting on the 4 lugnuts before you can put the caliper back on so the purpose that you're trying to state the 2 philips heads are for, for holding the rotor on when putting the caliper back on, is irrelevant. Picture the caliper off and the 2 philips head off. Your rotor is basically just sitting on the 4 bolts for your lugnuts. Last time I checked, the rotors don't "squeeze" perfectly on the 4 bolts for a snug tight fit. There is obviously gonna be some small freeplay which the 2 philips head eliminates.
What are you talking about? When the rotor is sitting on the wheel studs, it doesn't stay in place, because of the free play you were talking about. It falls down at an angle. It has to be upright against the hub when you put the caliper on, so with the screws in you don't have to brace it with your hand.
Sure, there may be some free play around the wheel studs, but it's not moving when you brake. Even if it did move, it would just jam up againt the studs in its rotational direction (backward) and stay there. But I can assure you from common sense that it's the wheel studs (and the pressure of the wheel against the rotor against the hub) that's supporting your braking force, not those two little screws. If the screws were keeping the rotor from rotating against the studs, they would be doing all the work of braking. Think about it.
Besides, brake shudder is happens when the rotor is warped.
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"The only thing that needs adjusting is the nut behind the wheel."
I'll keep it short. To correct you it's the pads/calipers doing all the work of the braking, not your studs. If it was the studs i'd say they'd have bent and warped after 1 trip to the gas station. Please don't use words like "common sense" when it doesn't apply to what you're saying. I do agree with you that even if it did move, it would just jam up against the studs in its rotational direction on a smooth surface. But what about when you're braking on a bumpy road? That not only pushes your rotors back against the studs but also in an up and down motion from the faults in the road. That's when you feel the brake shudder under your pedal. To be more detailed, you would only feel this at slower speeds coming to a complete stop. I guess I should have put a note to that, but you still feel it none the less.
I always wondered why i'd feel that under braking and i found out why when jei pointed it out to me as his first hand experience and now mine.
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-Steven
Quote:
Originally Posted by vile10
not to offend anyone but usually when you hear a loud noise but never see the car for a long while, that's probably a civic
well the rotors came in today... if i have anymore trouble with the screws ill just drill them out. If i decide to put some more in, does honda sell them? because the helms doesnt even show them.
sorry to spike up such a debate guys
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Down-graded from Prelude VTEC, to Civic EX...
Two years later, traded Civic straight up for a 94 Prelude...
Just can't stay away!
I'll keep it short. To correct you it's the pads/calipers doing all the work of the braking, not your studs. If it was the studs i'd say they'd have bent and warped after 1 trip to the gas station. Please don't use words like "common sense" when it doesn't apply to what you're saying. I do agree with you that even if it did move, it would just jam up against the studs in its rotational direction on a smooth surface. But what about when you're braking on a bumpy road? That not only pushes your rotors back against the studs but also in an up and down motion from the faults in the road. That's when you feel the brake shudder under your pedal. To be more detailed, you would only feel this at slower speeds coming to a complete stop. I guess I should have put a note to that, but you still feel it none the less.
I always wondered why i'd feel that under braking and i found out why when jei pointed it out to me as his first hand experience and now mine.
Well his point was correct, those screws just hold the rotor flush while you mount it. If you mounted it and it WASNT flush, you could easily warp it right away. those screws arent there for structural support at any rate, and that is common sense.
I'm not saying those screws are there for entire support, i'm just merely saying they do make a difference and eliminate that small freeplay which is what you notice under braking. Plain and simple. I'm talking through first hand experience and 2nd hand experience through a shop owner... no common sense can overrule what we actually feel and visually see when the wheel is off. There was brake shudder before the screws were in and now they are in and it's gone... don't know any other way to put it anymore.
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-Steven
Quote:
Originally Posted by vile10
not to offend anyone but usually when you hear a loud noise but never see the car for a long while, that's probably a civic
I'll keep it short. To correct you it's the pads/calipers doing all the work of the braking, not your studs.
Lots of things do the work of braking. Your pads, calipers, two caliper bolts, rotors, wheel studs, your wheels, tires and the pavement under them all do the same amount of work. Nothing is sitting there exerting force without being supported by something else.
Wheel studs don't warp because they're braced, and they have nowhere to go. If they failed, it would be in the sheer direction or the tensile direction, and AFAIK automotive parts like that are meant to break at about 5 times the force they're expected to endure.
Rotors can warp because they're sitting in free air with nothing to support them. And I believe they warp not because of the force put on them under braking, but because when they get really hot and then cool down, if the brakes are applied, the pads don't allow them to cool as fast in that one spot and they distort. This is why, after driving on a track, you never park with your e-brake on.
If the rotor could move and the two screws were holding the rotor in one place, they would be doing all the work of braking. It doesn't make sense to say that the rotor is jammed up against the studs but the two screws are stablizing it somehow. The rotor can be up against one surface or the other, not both. I have a feeling it doesn't move at all due to the clamping force of the wheel and the hub.
Edit: Yes, the screws are available from Honda. They come individually packaged. They're always available because they are the same for most Honda vehicles.
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"The only thing that needs adjusting is the nut behind the wheel."
Well as I'm unsure of the whole physics behind it, i'm sure you know of blacktrax since you're in the bay, if you really are curious you can call jei and he can try explaining to you the reason. I know what we feel isn't a figment of our imagination. I appologize for dragging this on as i'm not trying to argue with anyone but just trying to get accross what i know from experience while driving the car.
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-Steven
Quote:
Originally Posted by vile10
not to offend anyone but usually when you hear a loud noise but never see the car for a long while, that's probably a civic
but again, don't take my word for it. Take off your wheels and you'll see for yourself.