Swap Concerns: BB1 getting a new JDM H22A- Could use some advice
I was reading up on the difference between the USDM p13 ecu and the JDM counterpart. Everything I read says they are the same with the exception of the limiter. That is the JDM only lets you go about 120. Okay, so I might as well keep my ecu, right?
So I tell the shop that I want to keep my ecu, and their guy tells me I can't because the distrtibutor and some wiring is different. Is this true?
Also, I was told previously by the same person, that my old trans has atts? He said he saw it on there. I do know for sure that usdm 4th gens didn't have this option. Furthermore would it even be possible to mate with an h22a1? And even if you could, why would you bother?
I've spent all morning searching here and honda-tech, and haven't turned up any answers. I'm at the shop's mercy at this point. Please help.
Thanks for the input so far. Honestly the shop seems to be good and from every conversation I had up to this point I wasn't worried.
I just don't think he knows exactly whats going on here with these motors. So unless hmotorsonline sent the wrong kind of motor... this H22A should bolt right in and match up to the harness and everything?
The USDM models have tree body codes: BA8, BB1 and BB2. Visually there are no differences between them. The distinctive features of the USDM models are the rear corner lights replications at the sides of the rear bumper and the double section corner lights at the front bumper. The BA8 and BB2 models were released in 1992 and the legendary BB1 model joined the lineup in 1993.
BA8: This is the base Honda Prelude model for North American market. In United States it was titled "Prelude S" and in Canada simply "Prelude". It has 2.2l SOCH sequential multi-port fuel-injected engine (F22A1), which produce 135-hp at 5200 rpm and 142 lb.-ft. torque at 4000 rpm. This model has no Anti-Lock Brake System (ABS) and got the 14" wheels with full covers. The front chin spoiler was not offered too. The interior lacks driver's seat adjustable lumbar support and memory, power door locks, map lights and the ignition switch light. The rear spoiler and the air conditioning were optional. The stereo system was equipped with four 12.5-watt speakers.
BB2: This model was titled "Prelude Si" in United States and "Prelude SR" in Canada. Its 2.3l DOCH sequential multi-port fuel-injected engine (H23A1) produces 160-hp at 5800 rpm and 156 lb.-ft. torque at 4500 rpm. This model got Anti-Lock Brakes, air conditioning, front chin spoiler and the ignition switch light. The driver seat was enhanced with adjustable lumbar support and the memory. The rear spoiler was available as accessory. The 15" alloy wheels were included. Sound system got six 20-watt speakers.
BB1: This is the legendary model. Prelude got the VTEC engine for the first time in a history. The US title was "Prelude S VTEC" and Canadian "Prelude SR-V". The 2.2l DOCH VTEC sequential multi-port fuel-injected engine (H22A1) produces 190-hp at 6800 rpm and 158 lb.-ft. torque at 5500 rpm. The interior was available in leather with map lights and leather-wrapped steering wheel. The rear spoiler was in stock. The audio system featured tweeter speaker set and woofer. This version was available with manual transmission only.
European Market
The European chassis body codes are BB1, BB2 and BB3. There are also no visual differences between them. The differences from the North American models are corner light replicates in front of the doors and the single section corner lights in the front bumper. Unlike the American models it has rear whipwash. Similar to USDM the BB3 and BB2 models were released in 1992 and the BB1 model joined the lineup in 1993.
BB3: The bas version oh European Honda Prelude was titled "Prelude 2.0i" and rode water-cooled 2.0l 4-stroke SOHC 16-valve 4-cylinder engine (F20A4). The maximum horsepower of 131-hp was reached at 5300 rpm. Maximum torque of 179 Nm raised at 5000 rpm. This model was equipped with 5-speed manual or 4-speed electronically controlled automatic transmission, 14" wheels with full covers and 4-speaker stereo system. In United Kingdom ABS was in stock and in Germany it was optional. Air conditioning was optional too. The dual exhaust pipe with chrome finisher was available on German models.
BB2: The more advanced "Prelude 2.3i" version received 2.3l DOHC engine (H23A2) with 158-hp at 5800 rpm and 209 Nm at 4500 rpm. The Four-Wheel Steering System (4WS) was available as option and the Anti-Lock Brakes System was in the list of standard equipment. The 15" alloy wheels, driver air bag and dual exhaust pipe was available in both Germany and UK. Stereo system was powered with 6 speakers. Cruise control and air conditioning was optional.
BB1: The productive "Prelude 2.2i VTEC" was powered with water-cooled 4-stroke DOHC 16 valve engine with VTEC (H22A2). At 5300 rpm it reached maximum torque of 212 Nm and at 6800 rpm the maximum power of 183 hp was reached. The Four-Wheel Steering was also optional. The rear spoiler, passenger seat memory and the passenger airbag were in the standard equipment list. No automatic transmission was available for VTEC model. Unlike the USDM models no woofer was available for European models.
Japanese Market
The chassis codes of the Japanese models are BA8, BA9, BB1 and BB4. Visually they are absolutely identical to the European models. All versions have electronic speed limiter at 180 km/h. The distinctive features of the Japanese models are optional climate control and in-dash TV.
BA8, BA9: The base models of the Japanese market were titled "Prelude Si". The only difference between BA8 and BA9 models is that BA9 came with 4WS system. These versions were equipped with 2.2l DOCH sequential multi-port fuel-injected engine (F22B), which produce 160-hp at 6000 rpm and 20.5 kg*m torque at 5000 rpm. Both models were available with automatic or manual transmission.
BB1, BB4: The top models of the Japanese market were titled "Prelude Si VTEC". Like the base models BB1 came with 4WS system and BB4 doesn't. These versions were equipped with 2.2l DOCH sequential multi-port fuel-injected engine with VTEC (H22A), which produce 200-hp at 6800 rpm and 22.3 kg*m torque at 5500 rpm. Both models were available with automatic or manual transmission.
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I'm in South Jersey. Anyone know where I should have taken this thing? Geeze.
I just don't want to call this guy up and insist he does things that I don't know about. He mentioned that my new motor has a plastic distributor and that some of the wiring would be different. Could he just be confused? Perhaps he hasn't had a look under the hood and assumes I've got an h23?
EDIT:
For clarification he said the distributor is different then mine, coils differing from external and internal. Okay thats all fine and good.
The wiring issues are apparently due to the fact that I went with an LSD. I was of the understanding that this was a mechanical thing. Regardless of wether or not I had a trans in there that was or was not stock why would the wiring harness need to be modified.
Last edited by incredipaul; 08-05-2008 at 01:04 PM.
The JDM H22 uses an internal coil distributor where as the USDM models use an external coil. All you need to do is swap ithe external coil dizzy (your old one) onto the new JDM engine and no re-wiring will be needed.
There should not be any changes to the harness required to swap transmissions either. The only electrical connections that deal with the transmission (granted that they are both manual and not automatic) are for the reverse switch and the VSS connections.
You can use the stock harness and use the old distributor and external coil.
Quote:
G_Loc has it right...
The JDM H22 uses an internal coil distributor where as the USDM models use an external coil. All you need to do is swap ithe external coil dizzy (your old one) onto the new JDM engine and no re-wiring will be needed.
There should not be any changes to the harness required to swap transmissions either. The only electrical connections that deal with the transmission (granted that they are both manual and not automatic) are for the reverse switch and the VSS connections.
This has been a huge help. Thank you!
So I tell this guy to swap the distributors and not to worry because there are only 2 connectors on the trans. One for reverse and the other for the vehicle speed sensor.
So I tell this guy to swap the distributors and not to worry because there are only 2 connectors on the trans. One for reverse and the other for the vehicle speed sensor.
Yep!
But seriously, you really shouldn't have to give the guy installing your motor instructions
But seriously, you really shouldn't have to give the guy installing your motor instructions
No joke.
I just called up and the one guy was gone. Spoke to the owner who told me to give him a call when he gets in AM tomorrow. So why do I feel like the jerk here? Probably because I feel like the guy who goes to the doctor with my own online diagnosis.
Except were not talking biology. Were talking about the best Prelude forum, and guys who have not only heard these same questions over and over again, but actually done it themselves. And now I have to call this guy up again... I just can't muster up the courage to be a total douche.
The worst part is I've bounced around form shop to shop, each time with an even worse experience. I try to do as much work as I can myself for that same reason. This place my car is at now might be the only place to ever seem genuinely interested in working on it. Hopefully they aren't just seeing dollar signs.
And hopefully this will all work out. Thanks again.
Seriously just tell them that if they cant figure out how to swap one H22 for another H22 and switch out the distributors then they can give you back your car and shut down their shop. Its the most direct swap you can do. I did from H23 to H22a and the only wiring I had to do was two wires for VTEC and I was good to go. Not to mention that was my first time ever touching anything even relating to an engine in a car and it only took me a week including time chasing down and ordering replacement parts.
I would also be worried they think that there some kind of electrical control for the LSD.. seems like they dont know much about what they are doing.
Seriously just tell them that if they cant figure out how to swap one H22 for another H22 and switch out the distributors then they can give you back your car and shut down their shop. Its the most direct swap you can do. I did from H23 to H22a and the only wiring I had to do was two wires for VTEC and I was good to go. Not to mention that was my first time ever touching anything even relating to an engine in a car and it only took me a week including time chasing down and ordering replacement parts.
I would also be worried they think that there some kind of electrical control for the LSD.. seems like they dont know much about what they are doing.
Like an idiot I didn't check the code on the engine when I went to see it, but my visit predates my phone calls. So I figure it is either that hmotorsonline sent me the wrong H22 (a 4 perhaps, or something OBD2?) and this may be the reason for the confusion.
Though, I have a hunch they are just stalling me... and haven't really looked at it. I have the worst luck with shops, and I wish now I had just tried to do it myself. I'm hoping when they finally pull that old thing out they will see how remarkably well the new one fits in there... these guys won't want to go to town on the harness, unless they have to right? If it is as simple a swap as I understand it is, then why would they bother doing any extra work? Maybe just a story so they can bill me extra later. In which case I'll just get mega pissed and get in their face about it.
Nothing needs to be done to the harness since you're already wired up for VTEC. If they tell you that they needed to hack up wiring and all this other BS, call them out on it. Dropping in the motor should be plug and play. If they won't what they're doing, they won't even have to drain the AC (and then charge you to refill it, but they probably will lol)
They are on track, and I'm getting the car back tomorrow. Got a call and he seemed like he had done his research. I was getting worked up about it, I even had a dream they installed the whole thing sideways. Time for RWD!
They did mention they would leave in my USDM ecu. I know I've never gone that fast in the lude... there's only one road I do 100 on, and thats a rare occasion. I just wanted to keep as much of the original 'VTEC' there as possible and preserve the car. Still I'll be keeping the JDM ecu as backup.
Last edited by incredipaul; 08-21-2008 at 10:02 AM.
Reason: spelling
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